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Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

cherylyeoh.com

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Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#91

Post by toomuchtodo »

jacquesm wrote: post #32
crispytx wrote: post #12

If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's not sexual assault. Sexual assault is when someone has sex with another person without their permission.

If you tell someone to leave (NOW!) after they indicate they want to sleep in your bedroom when they've been offered the couch and then they forcibly kiss you that is in fact sexual assault, in fact even if none of the former had happened it would still be sexual assault. Force => assault. When someone has sex with another person without their permission it is rape .

> and then they forcibly kiss you that is in fact sexual assault, in fact even if none of the former had happened it would still be sexual assault. Force => assault.

The US Justice Department doesn't construe a forced kiss as sexual assault: https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault

"Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape."

I understand this incident occurred in Malaysia, which doesn't follow US law, but I don't believe they consider it sexual assault either. Some cursory review of LEO online forums is indicated a forcible kiss would be considered the lesser "sexual battery".

"The primary difference between sexual battery and rape is that with battery there is no penetration between the sexual organs. With sexual battery, all that matters is the non-consensual touching of another person's sexual organs. Sexual assault, like the broader crime of assault, constitutes the threat of force."

Even under that definition, I'm unsure if a kiss is considered either sexual assault or sexual battery, since sex organs aren't involved.

IANAL.

Edit: Appreciate the replies! You learn new things every day.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#92

Post by ithinkinstereo »

ForrestN wrote: post #88
ithinkinstereo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 12 women according to the update in Cheryl's post. Most, if not all of these women, are also people of color according to Sarah Kunst. > I just spoke to Sarah Kunst and learned from her that at least 12 other women including me, have faced sexual harassment or advances from Dave of various degrees. Some of them are portfolio company CEOs like myself. They’re afraid to come out, but some eventually will. I ha…

Why was this downvoted? Asking sincerely in an effort to understand and learn.

Because there are tons of apologists in the valley. Men who also harass women like McClure and feel they're entitled to it, especially against women of color.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#93

Post by cyberferret »

crispytx wrote: post #44
cblock811 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the article? "At this point, I led him to the door and told him he needs to leave. On the way out, he pushed himself onto me to the point where I was backed into a corner, made contact to kiss me, and said something along the lines of “Just one night, please just this one time.” Then he told me how he really likes strong and smart women like me. Disgusted and outraged, I said no firmly again, pushed…

So what? He came on to someone while he was drinking at their apartment. That's all he's guilty of. People are acting like he's Bill Cosby or something. Give me a break.

WTF? Where on earth did you get your definition of 'came on to' ?? In my mind, 'coming on to' someone was usually just trying to catch their eyes, attempting to start an awkward conversation to gauge their interest in you etc. etc.

In what universe does forcibly pushing someone physically smaller than you up against a corner and planting your lips on theirs against all their protests count as a standard every day pick up routine????

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#94

Post by ChuckMcM »

As the father of three daughters I always cringe a bit when I read things like this. Thanks Cheryl for sharing your story, and men please remember it isn't how you feel about whether or not an action was appropriate or inappropriate, it is how they feel about it.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#95

Post by pikachuaintcool »

jacquesm wrote: post #81
pikachuaintcool wrote: post #71

What a drama queen. This guy's career is over.

Problematically ambiguous comment.

I mean, I don't know the guy. Maybe all this lynching is justified, maybe it isn't. But all I can glean from this article is that the woman who wrote it is blowing her interactions with him a bit out of proportion. Mind you, I've experienced my fair share of sexual assault as well. To me, this is just some guy who has no game who came off a bit too strongly. Regardless, he has some learning to do.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#96

Post by ithinkinstereo »

It's 10x sad because she's an Asian female (most of the victims are either Asian or another minority group). Unfortunately there is a lot of self-hating and white-is-right mentality among Asians. Why do you think so many westerners goto Asia to "teach" English?

Edit: this is an un-PC opinion and casting a wide net, so downvote all you want, but this is well documented and discussed online. And if you've traveled throughout Asia, or have any experience living there, you know this is way more common than just a fringe opinion.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#97

Post by pikachuaintcool »

Zikes wrote: post #87

> Generalized sexist statements and behavior that convey insulting or degrading attitudes about women (e.g. Insulting remarks, obscene jokes or humor about sex or women in general) This should be generalized to include both sexes. I often see insulting or degrading comments about men by people in the tech world, especially with terms like "mansplaining".

How about we generalize them to include neither sex? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#98

Post by [deleted] »

dawhizkid wrote: post #85

Question for me is when did Christine Tsai know and why was nothing done sooner? She tweeted (now deleted) about Caldbeck a week before asking “Where’s the Outrage?” when it now sounds like she kept the real reason why McClure was put in a “limited” role in April for reasons unknown to even the 500 staff (and obviously the public until this past weekend) https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/03/employee-email-claims-500-...…

[deleted]

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#99

Post by dang »

crispytx wrote: post #12

If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's not sexual assault. Sexual assault is when someone has sex with another person without their permission.

You've crossed way over the line into trolling. Since you don't appear to have a history of doing this on HN we haven't banned you, but if you don't stop, we will.

It's one thing to bring up real questions and/or complexities of the broader issues—people have been doing that a lot in these threads recently. The timing for that hasn't necessarily been good but one can at least see how it might come up in good faith. Outright denial is something different.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14692419 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#100

Post by jacquesm »

gizmo686 wrote: post #86
jacquesm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the numbers are that bad in your experience, then you do have a very not normal experience. That would be good news. But I fear that it isn't. Here's an experiment for you: ask the women you are close to in your life if they've been raped or assaulted. The answers may surprise you. If you feel brave ask someone who spent time in an orphanage or jail or some other place where they have little access to representa…

>ask the women you are close to in your life if they've been raped or assaulted. The answers may surprise you. That is not the number under dispute. There are two fundamentally different theories about what is going on: 1) Most men sexually assault women, or 2) A minority of men sexual assault a large number of women. Based on statistics of victims, it is impossible to distinguish between these two scenarios. However…

> You seem to believe that we are in scenario 1.

What I've seen professionally makes me believe this, definitely. And that view is consistent across 30 years in the industry with stints in various sub-branches of IT and/or fields that require IT services (which is pretty much anything nowadays).

Let me reprhase this in a more direct way so there is no misunderstanding:

I have yet to see a female friendly company in IT.

If you know of such companies it would be nice to list them.

If there is such a thing I would love to be surprised, I suspect that it is going to be the ones run by women, but they are rare enough that I have not had much exposure to them.

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