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Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

cherylyeoh.com

61–70 of 416 posts

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're aware of harassment and assault of women, please contact the appropriate authorities. Are you kidding? I wouldn't have enough time in a day. Just some stats, 1 out of every 6 women has been the victim of attempted rape or rape. I'm aware of several such cases in the last 2 years alone, none of these resulted in an arrest or a court case and I have absolutely no reason not to believe the women. Besides tha…

I get what you're trying to say, but I don't agree with your defeatism. While I cannot single-handedly stop all sexual assault, every person that I can indirectly protect is precious. I will never stop trying.

Protection is useful before and during some action. In the few cases that I was a witness I definitely stepped in and did something about it, but in most cases you only hear about things long after they've happened (in many cases years afterwards).

So you will 'never stop trying', but tell me, how often have you been there when it happened? For me those instances are a small fraction of the number of cases that I'm aware of and I suspect that the whole reason this number is so low is because of how these things play out, see the linked article here: mr. McClure did not bother to harass her until he'd isolated her. Who would stop him other than the woman?

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#62

Because women are weak victims of the inappropriate behaviour of men . Why can't women be strong and have power? Because that wouldn't fit the narrative.

How many times do you have to choose to not walk down a particular street at night because of the real risk that you will be raped?

How many times have you have to 'politely' brush off some random creep, without hurting his feelings, to avoid being intimidated, coerced and assaulted?

It's almost impossible to comprehend if you don't live with the very real possibility hanging over your head that today is the day when someone, most likely someone you know, is going to try to rape you

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#63
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm not going to do anything about the sexual harassment that I'm aware of, I don't have the time". Seriously, what the fuck. If you don't care enough to do anything, at least have the decency to stop hand wringing about it on the internet.

You're being silly. If every time I hear about a woman being harassed I would get myself mixed up in the case I don't think I'd have many friends left. Just in the last year alone one of my female friends was raped in her own home and if she wanted me to do something I'm pretty sure she'd be more than willing to ask, all I can do instead is to be there when she wants to talk about it. What bothers me is that people s…

I'd like to apologize for the misunderstanding, I said what I said because of the phrasing in your original post "[...] based on what I see and hear around me when no women are within earshot."

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're aware of harassment and assault of women, please contact the appropriate authorities. Are you kidding? I wouldn't have enough time in a day. Just some stats, 1 out of every 6 women has been the victim of attempted rape or rape. I'm aware of several such cases in the last 2 years alone, none of these resulted in an arrest or a court case and I have absolutely no reason not to believe the women. Besides tha…

Apparently we cannot agree that it is not normal, because you claimed that, optimistically, half of men are like that, with a more "realistic" estimate of 80%. The point is that, if the numbers are that bad in your experience, then you do have a very not normal experience.

> if the numbers are that bad in your experience, then you do have a very not normal experience.

That would be good news. But I fear that it isn't. Here's an experiment for you: ask the women you are close to in your life if they've been raped or assaulted. The answers may surprise you. If you feel brave ask someone who spent time in an orphanage or jail or some other place where they have little access to representation and are at the mercy of people that have power over them.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#66

This is so stupid. There are so many horrible things that can happen in life. A bald ugly guy trying to kiss you is not anywhere near the top of that list. And furthermore, the majority of first sexual encounters involve going back to someone's apartment for drinks. Women rarely tell the people they want to sleep with that they want to sleep with them, they drop subtle hints, like inviting you back to their place to…

Could you please stop spamming the thread with this?

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#67

It's going to be pretty impossible to sow doubt about the 'setting' on this one like he did with the previous instance. Makes you wonder how often this sort of thing played out, 10's of times? 100's?

At least 12 women according to the update in Cheryl's post. Most, if not all of these women, are also people of color according to Sarah Kunst.

> I just spoke to Sarah Kunst and learned from her that at least 12 other women including me, have faced sexual harassment or advances from Dave of various degrees. Some of them are portfolio company CEOs like myself. They’re afraid to come out, but some eventually will. I had doubts publishing this, but after talking to Sarah, it is clear to me now that I can’t just sit silently and trust that Dave’s behavior will stop, or that we can just file his misconduct under “Dave being Dave.” This is about protecting other women who might otherwise be subjected to his future unwanted sexual advances.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#69
post #7

>Non-consensual, sexual advances are not the same as flirtatious comments from a creepy dude It is refreshing to see this much needed distinction; I think many people in modern society have been conflating flirtation with harassment for the past few years. Still, not to speak against the author or victimized women, but I cannot understand why sexual harassment takes such a toll on women. I've been sexually harassed b…

Edit: For clarification, the (now flagged) parent commenter was expressing that he did not understand why women are so affected by unwanted sexual advances. He mentioned that men have come onto him without his consent, and he was (on a separate occasion) beaten up bad enough to end up in the hospital, but his quality of life did not decrease to the same degree that he sees in women who are kissed against their will. He said he didn't understand why being kissed without permission is such a big deal in comparison with actually being beaten up. Following is my response:

I think reading this will help you understand: https://www.guernicamag.com/rebecca-solnit-men-explain-thing...

Sexual assault & sexual harassment are not isolated events. They are symptoms of a world that can be very fucked up if you're a woman. You've been beaten up, but after the beating you were still (I assume) physically bigger and stronger than ~50% of the human population. That might influence how you feel about the things that have happened to you.

Here is an excerpt from the link above:

Credibility is a basic survival tool. When I was very young and just beginning to get what feminism was about and why it was necessary, I had a boyfriend whose uncle was a nuclear physicist. One Christmas, he was telling–as though it were a light and amusing subject–how a neighbor’s wife in his suburban bomb-making community had come running out of her house naked in the middle of the night screaming that her husband was trying to kill her. How, I asked, did you know that he wasn’t trying to kill her? He explained, patiently, that they were respectable middle-class people. Therefore, her-husband-trying-to-kill-her was simply not a credible explanation for her fleeing the house yelling that her husband was trying to kill her. That she was crazy, on the other hand….

Even getting a restraining order–a fairly new legal tool–requires acquiring the credibility to convince the courts that some guy is a menace and then getting the cops to enforce it. Restraining orders often don’t work anyway. Violence is one way to silence people, to deny their voice and their credibility, to assert your right to control over their right to exist. About three women a day are murdered by spouses or ex-spouses in this country. It’s one of the main causes of death in pregnant women in the U.S. At the heart of the struggle of feminism to give rape, date rape, marital rape, domestic violence, and workplace sexual harassment legal standing as crimes has been the necessity of making women credible and audible.

I tend to believe that women acquired the status of human beings when these kinds of acts started to be taken seriously, when the big things that stop us and kill us were addressed legally from the mid-1970s on; well after, that is, my birth. And for anyone about to argue that workplace sexual intimidation isn’t a life or death issue, remember that Marine Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach, age 20, was apparently killed by her higher-ranking colleague last winter while she was waiting to testify that he raped her. The burned remains of her pregnant body were found in the fire pit in his backyard in December.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#70

" It’s not just inappropriate, it’s assault. " I'm going to have to stop reading there. Now, of course, I don't know what happened, I wasn't there. What I'm seeing in front of me are glowing pixels that don't constitute a conviction. In my opinion if you believe you've been the subject of assault you ought to approach the police, or probably a lawyer.

Good luck as a foreigner in Malaysia approaching the local police to file a complaint for assault based on a forced kiss against another foreigner who happens to be a millionaire. But that doesn't make it right. Note that it is extremely hard to get these cases to go anywhere in the West where you know the law and where the lines tend to be drawn rather sharper than in Asia (unless there is drugs involved).

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