Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness” • Hacker News Board

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#41

Post by crispytx » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:17 AM UTC

dzhang50 wrote: post #35

crispytx wrote: post #17

Yeah, that's a ridiculous allegation. If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's definitely not sexual assault. Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

From the article: "After the meeting, Khailee, Dave, and a few others (including two other females), came over to my apartment to brainstorm about 500 Startups’ new Growth / Distribution Accelerator, Cerebro (later rebranded as Distro Dojo) and also a hashtag for MaGIC, the organization that I was leading." Does this sound like "inviting someone over to your apartment to drink scotch"? Do you think it's appropriate f…

#VirtueSignalling

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#42

Post by Lazare » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:18 AM UTC

crispytx wrote: post #33

Dave McClure didn't rape anybody. Did he behave like a creep? Sure. Is he a rapist? No. (sexualAssault == rape)

Sexual assault includes things such as kissing. Rape does not. They are not equivalent terms.

> sexualAssault == rape

You realise you can't just make up definitions, right?

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#43

Post by sokoloff » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:18 AM UTC

crispytx wrote: post #33

Dave McClure didn't rape anybody. Did he behave like a creep? Sure. Is he a rapist? No. (sexualAssault == rape)

> (sexualAssault == rape)

That depends on the jurisdiction.

I have edited my comment in light of your response to more precisely reflect my claim that it is assault and sexual harassment, but depending on jurisdiction I agree that it may not meet the legal definition of sexual assault.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#44

Post by crispytx » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:19 AM UTC

cblock811 wrote: post #38

crispytx wrote: post #17

Yeah, that's a ridiculous allegation. If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's definitely not sexual assault. Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

Did you even read the article? "At this point, I led him to the door and told him he needs to leave. On the way out, he pushed himself onto me to the point where I was backed into a corner, made contact to kiss me, and said something along the lines of “Just one night, please just this one time.” Then he told me how he really likes strong and smart women like me. Disgusted and outraged, I said no firmly again, pushed…

So what? He came on to someone while he was drinking at their apartment. That's all he's guilty of. People are acting like he's Bill Cosby or something. Give me a break.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#45

Post by throwaway02924 » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:19 AM UTC

> The fact that I had to say no multiple times, and that he had push himself onto me and kissed me without my consent was way more than crossing the line of inappropriateness. It’s sexual assault.

As the father of someone who underwent significant psychological trauma following a rape, I actually find this comparison quite offensive. Obviously the behaviour is completely inappropriate, but the effect is unlikely the same as that of violent sexual assault.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#46

Post by Lazare » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:20 AM UTC

crispytx wrote: post #17

Yeah, that's a ridiculous allegation. If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's definitely not sexual assault. Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

> Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

You keep posting that in this thread, but that is wrong both as a matter of common usage AND as a matter of law, at least in Western, english speaking countries.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#47

Post by ori_b » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:20 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #24

DLadowDiCanFuge wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're aware of harassment and assault of women, please contact the appropriate authorities. It's not normal and you shouldn't accept it as such.

> If you're aware of harassment and assault of women, please contact the appropriate authorities. Are you kidding? I wouldn't have enough time in a day. Just some stats, 1 out of every 6 women has been the victim of attempted rape or rape. I'm aware of several such cases in the last 2 years alone, none of these resulted in an arrest or a court case and I have absolutely no reason not to believe the women. Besides tha…

"I'm not going to do anything about the sexual harassment that I'm aware of, I don't have the time".

Seriously, what the fuck. If you don't care enough to do anything, at least have the decency to stop hand wringing about it on the internet.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#48

Post by roywiggins » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:20 AM UTC

Geekette wrote: post #29

losvedir wrote: post #11

What a terrible story. I'm sorry she had to go through that and appreciate her sharing it. I'm curious about the legal aspect of it. "Sexual assault" is a crime, right? The worst repercussions I hear from these stories are maybe a resignation at best. But if this is truly a crime shouldn't it be prosecuted?

Many victims decline to prosecute to avoid the mental toll the process takes, including having to relive their trauma, having their credibility torn to shreds and possibility of the perp being acquitted even in face of compelling evidence. Trying to recover and generally move on with their lives is already hard enough.

Depending on the jurisdiction, strictly speaking it's not up to the victim to pursue charges. The prosecutor can bring charges whether the victim wants to or not.

In practice if the victim doesn't want to testify there's usually no way to get a conviction so it won't be prosecuted. But the decision lies with the prosecutor.

(There are some exceptions- private prosecutions used to be the norm in English common law, but the US largely didn't seem to inherit that portion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prosecution?wprov=sf... )

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/12/pressing-charges-wh...

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#49

Post by elsewhen » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:20 AM UTC

crispytx wrote: post #17

Yeah, that's a ridiculous allegation. If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's definitely not sexual assault. Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

from the department of justice:

"Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient." [0]

[0] https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#50

Post by mastazi » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 12:20 AM UTC

crispytx wrote: post #17

Yeah, that's a ridiculous allegation. If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's definitely not sexual assault. Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

I don't know in which country you live but I'm pretty sure that your definition of sexual assault (specifically where you say it is "where someone has sex") isn't what the law says in most countries of the world.

And remember that in most legal systems "ignorance of the law is not excuse".

(Edited for clarity)