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Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

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Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#31

Post by gizmo686 »

jacquesm wrote: post #24
DLadowDiCanFuge wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're aware of harassment and assault of women, please contact the appropriate authorities. It's not normal and you shouldn't accept it as such.

> If you're aware of harassment and assault of women, please contact the appropriate authorities. Are you kidding? I wouldn't have enough time in a day. Just some stats, 1 out of every 6 women has been the victim of attempted rape or rape. I'm aware of several such cases in the last 2 years alone, none of these resulted in an arrest or a court case and I have absolutely no reason not to believe the women. Besides tha…

Apparently we cannot agree that it is not normal, because you claimed that, optimistically, half of men are like that, with a more "realistic" estimate of 80%. The point is that, if the numbers are that bad in your experience, then you do have a very not normal experience.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#32

Post by jacquesm »

crispytx wrote: post #12

If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's not sexual assault. Sexual assault is when someone has sex with another person without their permission.

If you tell someone to leave (NOW!) after they indicate they want to sleep in your bedroom when they've been offered the couch and then they forcibly kiss you that is in fact sexual assault, in fact even if none of the former had happened it would still be sexual assault. Force => assault.

When someone has sex with another person without their permission it is rape.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#34

Post by codezero »

mrkrab wrote: post #26
codezero wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they say no and they persist, it is.

If you two were alone, you had sex, and you go to a doctor later and there are no signs of violence, how can you prove you actually said "no"? Honest question.

It's damn near impossible. Given the amount of pushback women get from the system, something should be done to help. Suffering systematic abuse then having a system that basically says, "You wanted it," must be extremely draining.

Our system is only slightly above ones that require a male relative to have witnessed the assault before accepting that it wasn't the woman who committed a crime.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#35

Post by dzhang50 »

crispytx wrote: post #17

Yeah, that's a ridiculous allegation. If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's definitely not sexual assault. Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

From the article: "After the meeting, Khailee, Dave, and a few others (including two other females), came over to my apartment to brainstorm about 500 Startups’ new Growth / Distribution Accelerator, Cerebro (later rebranded as Distro Dojo) and also a hashtag for MaGIC, the organization that I was leading."

Does this sound like "inviting someone over to your apartment to drink scotch"? Do you think it's appropriate for someone to "come on to you" in this scenario?

Your definition of sexual assault is also completely incorrect. The definition of sexual assault from the US Department of Justice is: "Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient."

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#36

Post by jacquesm »

crispytx wrote: post #17

Yeah, that's a ridiculous allegation. If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's definitely not sexual assault. Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

You probably should have at least read until the end of the encounter.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#37

Post by sethjgore »

cbhl wrote: post #5
Insanity wrote: post #4

It is unfortunate that these kind of things happen. They shed a bad light on our industry as a whole due to (hopefully a few) rotten apples. Thanks for writing this, takes courage!

Let's stop perpetuating this myth that this is a "few rotten apples". This is a systemic problem in our industry, and we need to all realize this, so that we can start teaching each other what behavior is and is not appropriate in a very clear, concise, and precise manner.

I agree that we can teach each other what kind of culture we want to instill, and one that allows people to work in an environment that boosts their potential.

However, from my observations, to flat out list a finite list of behaviorism, will manifest yet another set of behaviorism, which will manifest another list.

I do not view this as a simple systematic problem, but rather a deep-wedged symptom of a sick society. We all are complicit.

A society that is focused on results and ego and success will always encourage such behavior (of debasing others, exploiting others regardless of their being — even white men are exploited and debased by other "higher-paying" white men). No set of rules will change this until we change our society's culture.

The culture cannot change through scolding, but rather a deep, opening conversation that will be conversed again and again until people find no use for the word harassment or sexual harassment or the desire to hurt or debase others in name of success.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#38

Post by cblock811 »

crispytx wrote: post #17

Yeah, that's a ridiculous allegation. If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's definitely not sexual assault. Sexual assault is where someone has sex with another person without their permission.

Did you even read the article?

"At this point, I led him to the door and told him he needs to leave. On the way out, he pushed himself onto me to the point where I was backed into a corner, made contact to kiss me, and said something along the lines of “Just one night, please just this one time.” Then he told me how he really likes strong and smart women like me. Disgusted and outraged, I said no firmly again, pushed him away and made sure he was out my door."

^ How do you define that?

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#39

Post by Lazare »

crispytx wrote: post #12

If you invite someone over to your apartment to drink scotch, and then they come on to you, that's not sexual assault. Sexual assault is when someone has sex with another person without their permission.

That is incorrect by common usage, and at least if you're in a Western, english speaking country, incorrect as a matter of law.

Re: Shedding Light on the “Black Box of Inappropriateness”

#40

Post by jacquesm »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #9

" It’s not just inappropriate, it’s assault. " I'm going to have to stop reading there. Now, of course, I don't know what happened, I wasn't there. What I'm seeing in front of me are glowing pixels that don't constitute a conviction. In my opinion if you believe you've been the subject of assault you ought to approach the police, or probably a lawyer.

Good luck as a foreigner in Malaysia approaching the local police to file a complaint for assault based on a forced kiss against another foreigner who happens to be a millionaire. But that doesn't make it right.

Note that it is extremely hard to get these cases to go anywhere in the West where you know the law and where the lines tend to be drawn rather sharper than in Asia (unless there is drugs involved).

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