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What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

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Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's different from the sort of value that a startup creates: at least a startup is trying to affect the world in a tangible way that can usually be explained in a couple of sentences. I agree that it is different. Arguably, though, if Bitcoin gains enough traction, it would affect the world too.

>Arguably, though, if Bitcoin gains enough traction, it would affect the world too. But even then, the ways in which it would affect the world is unpredictable and any predictions are pure speculation. In 2011 people where thinking that when 1BTC reaches $1000 in value, there would be mass adoption and it will be used as a currency for mundane everyday purchases. Well that didn't happen and it doesn't seem like Bitco…

I bought OJ, milk, eggs, veggies yesterday with BTC via my Shift Card.

This hasn't caught on mainstream yet but the infrastructure is there, and it's growing.

https://www.shiftpayments.com/card

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#92
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my thoughts. This is pure gambling. Lots of people will end up losing money while a small amount of people will make millions from these scams.

How is investing in the stock market not a gamble? Potentially reduced risk with alot more rules and regulations it's not any different IMO.

A stock is an ownership share in a real (money-making) company. Criptocoins, on the other hand, have questionable intrinsic value.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#93
post #77

I think the cryptocurrency story is real, just like the internet story was real in 1999, but these ICOs show that the market is getting way ahead of the tech, regulations, business models, etc. I have a longer rant about it, here: https://twitter.com/jonst0kes/status/880806655067291649 (Sadly, twitter's threading model is now so broken that you have to do lots of clicking to get to the good back-and-forth dialogue in…

Why do you need a Kickstarter campaign? Most authors just go ahead and write.

It's not clear to me from this reply that you know very much about authors, advances, and the like. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, writing a book is an actual job for some people, and not a hobby, a passion project, a speculative endeavor, a side gig, or a way to boost your leverage in compensation negotiations with potential employers. Seeing as how it's an actual job that entails a bunch of really hard work that I don't have to do and, frankly, don't particularly enjoy more than N number of other things I'm doing right now and that I'm good at, I'm not interested in doing it unless it can replace some subset of the paid work I'm currently doing that I enjoy (and learn from).

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#94

I think the cryptocurrency story is real, just like the internet story was real in 1999, but these ICOs show that the market is getting way ahead of the tech, regulations, business models, etc. I have a longer rant about it, here: https://twitter.com/jonst0kes/status/880806655067291649 (Sadly, twitter's threading model is now so broken that you have to do lots of clicking to get to the good back-and-forth dialogue in…

Seems like a project worthy of its own ICO ;)

Heh, I actually had the same thought. Then I had the following thought: "I relish the thought of one day talking to the SEC even less than I do talking to the IRS, and if this were successful I'd probably end up talking to both at some point."

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#95
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum has no "play" here, it isn't a platform made for token sales (aka "icos"), it's a generalistic platform that happens to have projects that do this sort of token sales.

The Ethereum founders do: they've managed to turn themselves into a certification/approval stamp of sorts. I've seen them slapped on as advisors for umpteen of these ICOs. If I were them, I'd create a regulatory company and take a cut for "Ethereum-approved ICOs."

And a lot of those were actually fake / without any sort of authorization. Some projects also just put ppl as a "advisors" because they answered a question that one time.

Btw, Given is the number of Ethereum founders is small, you're probably referring to some of many devs working for the foundation as contractors.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#96
post #87

I can't believe there is no mention of tezos here ( https://www.tezos.com/ ). Which currently has raised $123,317,760.00 in bitcoins and $68,709,765.86 in ethereum. Almost $200,000,000 raised for something that doesn't even exist yet, all so that the founders can create it. It's basically $200,000,000 into a kickstarter. What the absolute frell is going on there I have no idea.

> What the absolute frell is going on there I have no idea.

Money laundering? Flight capital? Under the table payments for services rendered in some other area?

I have no insider knowledge. It's just a speculation. But if even 10% of this actually exists in some liquid sense this is serious money. The number of participants in these markets is far lower than Kickstarter and yet the money in question here is massive.

I've read a few of these ICO white papers. They are largely jokes, total buzzword salad with little in the way of novel developments. There are a few ICOs that might actually be worthwhile experiments but the majority are ridiculous.

"If something makes no sense from a business perspective, maybe it makes sense in some other way."

I've heard that saying from multiple sources. Apparently it's a saying in the investigative world. It is said of perpetually money-losing yet eternally floated businesses, businesses that don't actually do anything yet seem to be moving a lot of money around for services rendered, and absurd-looking "investments" that raise money from weird sources.

Chinese or Russian flight capital is one very good possibility. There are a lot of very rich and often corrupt people who want to get money out of those countries without tipping off authorities and skirting currency controls and (in Russia's case) embargoes. One way of moving money illicitly is to basically execute a pump-and-dump or Ponzi scheme against yourself. The losing side is the sender, the winning side is the receiver. You lose some in the transfer but that's cost of doing business.

Vancouver recently enacted a foreign property speculation tax to curtail its ridiculous flight-capital-driven property bubble. There are rumblings of similar measures elsewhere. Perhaps other avenues for flight capital are being experimented with. There are hundreds of billions of dollars waiting to be expatriated from these countries.

Someone is always paying attention, especially when this kind of money flies around. I again have no inside knowledge but I can nevertheless say with 100% certainty that intelligence agencies and police agencies are watching.

In any case stay away. Stay far away from scams. A lot of people get deluded into thinking they can skim from these, but if you aren't an insider and don't know the timing you'll get fleeced.

Edit:

I've long heard the rumor that some obscenely big ticket sales of crummy WTF "art" are money laundering. "If something makes no sense..."

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#97

Usually this kind of blatant negativity would be down voted to oblivion but for some reason HN has a special place in it's heart for crypyocurrency haters.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14688593 and marked it off-topic.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#98
post #87

I can't believe there is no mention of tezos here ( https://www.tezos.com/ ). Which currently has raised $123,317,760.00 in bitcoins and $68,709,765.86 in ethereum. Almost $200,000,000 raised for something that doesn't even exist yet, all so that the founders can create it. It's basically $200,000,000 into a kickstarter. What the absolute frell is going on there I have no idea.

Tezos has a working testnet available to anyone on request and a functional (albeit early) platform. They also took extra time and delayed their ICO to get proper accountability systems in place via good legal standing for the Tezos Foundation.

Tezos asks a vital question. Can cryptocurrency governance be decentralized? Can we do better than the anarchy of management for Bitcoin and Ethereum with chain splits being the solution to dispute?

I for one gambled some of my portfolio I am willing to lose to find out and spent a lot of time researching their code, and team before doing so. I am as interested in seeing Tezos fail (and thus further indicate anarchy and splits are unavoidable) and seeing my ETH/BTC holdings continue to rise as I am in seeing Tezos succeed and overshadow everything by proving it can rapidly evolve and incorporate the best features of other coins without forking.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#99
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Arguably, though, if Bitcoin gains enough traction, it would affect the world too. But even then, the ways in which it would affect the world is unpredictable and any predictions are pure speculation. In 2011 people where thinking that when 1BTC reaches $1000 in value, there would be mass adoption and it will be used as a currency for mundane everyday purchases. Well that didn't happen and it doesn't seem like Bitco…

I bought OJ, milk, eggs, veggies yesterday with BTC via my Shift Card. This hasn't caught on mainstream yet but the infrastructure is there, and it's growing. https://www.shiftpayments.com/card

The fees are quite high for that card.

And you are not paying with BTC. If it's a debit card then you have to have fiat in a bank account. I guess they exchange BTC to USD when you top up your shift card.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#100
post #87

I can't believe there is no mention of tezos here ( https://www.tezos.com/ ). Which currently has raised $123,317,760.00 in bitcoins and $68,709,765.86 in ethereum. Almost $200,000,000 raised for something that doesn't even exist yet, all so that the founders can create it. It's basically $200,000,000 into a kickstarter. What the absolute frell is going on there I have no idea.

Where is this 200M coming from? Just random people on the internet?

I guess some of this is from Etherum and Bitcoin early investors who have been their holdings appreciate?

The numbers are staggering given that I think institutional and professional investors are not in this market?

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