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What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

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Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#81
I've been investing in this space since 2012. "Investing" in the loosest sense of the term, because I was simply looking for ways to grow my bitcoin stash. It started out as a naive attempt at diversification. In reality, I had no clue what I was doing, lost a lot of bitcoin to scam investments, made some bitcoin on fruitful investments. I became diligent and conservative with my bitcoin over time and ethereum happened to be one of the investments I made in 2014. I look at my ethereum presale investment as dumb luck.

Long before the term ICO was coined (no pun intended), there were multiple markets for bitcoin securities dating back to 2012 - possibly earlier. I am referring to business ventures here, not clones of the bitcoin repo with a modified PoW mechanism or similar. There were many scams for every one legitimate venture. Many legitimate ventures eventually mutated into scams. Investors that started out as bitcoin maximalists were often crying to the SEC for help getting their bitcoin back. Some of those ventures run to this day.

The market was chump change back then. Tens of millions maybe. With ERC20 and ICO mania, we have front row seats for failure on a grand scale. The exuberance is terrifying to me given what I experienced years ago with bitcoin securities. For that reason I stopped making investments in May and started doing some real diversification. For many investors, ICOs will be their first taste of "a fool and his money are soon parted." For many projects who have conducted an offering, ICOs will be their first taste of what it's like when the SEC come knockin'.

I'm quite sure there will be some success stories a few years down the line, but they will be accompanied by a plethora of scams and all the media attention that comes with bad news. I think this form of funding is a vague peek into the future of project funding. Ethereum is not necessarily the specific answer, and the ICO framework will have to burn to the ground a few times before it evolves into something useful.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#82

A lot of people are calling these things Scams. People arent wrong and to a certain degree they do attract the "quick buck" type to them. Keep in mind though that these are also very useful for companies to get the Digitial Currency and block chain into the hands of the masses without some of this money, which large parts of that may be burned, will yield some killer apps. The people doing an ICO do it to raise a bun…

Call me when a single of these projects that raise a ton of money from ICOs actually delivers and becomes a success. So far we have seen a lot of no strings attached cash given away to people with just an idea who would never raise money from real investors. I think it's a ponzi scheme. As far as people selling ICO tokens for 10x price, only a small number of people can logically do that and it relies on influx of ne…

A Ponzi scheme would be impossible, no ICO buyers are paid dividends of any kind.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#83
post #42

Previously, we had a filter screening new altcoins (expletive deleted) in that you had to know enough about bitcoin to at least fork the repo, build it and make some modest changes to create a new namespace. We could see whether those coins are worth anything by looking to see if there was a novel PoW or other network changes, premine, etc. Now, Counterparty and much moreso Ethereum have created an opportunity for an…

Ethereum has the right play here though. They go to where the gold rush is and sell the shovels.

Ethereum has no "play" here, it isn't a platform made for token sales (aka "icos"), it's a generalistic platform that happens to have projects that do this sort of token sales.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, though it's probably best to go further: Any money into any cyptocoin is pure gambling. Don't put any money in you can't afford to lose. If anyone is saying the word "investment" while talking about a cryptocoin, smile and nod while slowly receding in the other direction. As a gambling vehicle, cryptocoins are one of the finest ever created. But people should at least admit to themselves that it's not investing…

> It's different from the sort of value that a startup creates: at least a startup is trying to affect the world in a tangible way that can usually be explained in a couple of sentences. I agree that it is different. Arguably, though, if Bitcoin gains enough traction, it would affect the world too.

>Arguably, though, if Bitcoin gains enough traction, it would affect the world too.

But even then, the ways in which it would affect the world is unpredictable and any predictions are pure speculation.

In 2011 people where thinking that when 1BTC reaches $1000 in value, there would be mass adoption and it will be used as a currency for mundane everyday purchases. Well that didn't happen and it doesn't seem like Bitcoin will ever be use in that way.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#86

Previously, we had a filter screening new altcoins (expletive deleted) in that you had to know enough about bitcoin to at least fork the repo, build it and make some modest changes to create a new namespace. We could see whether those coins are worth anything by looking to see if there was a novel PoW or other network changes, premine, etc. Now, Counterparty and much moreso Ethereum have created an opportunity for an…

Exactly my thoughts. This is pure gambling. Lots of people will end up losing money while a small amount of people will make millions from these scams.

How is investing in the stock market not a gamble? Potentially reduced risk with alot more rules and regulations it's not any different IMO.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#87
I can't believe there is no mention of tezos here (https://www.tezos.com/).

Which currently has raised $123,317,760.00 in bitcoins and $68,709,765.86 in ethereum. Almost $200,000,000 raised for something that doesn't even exist yet, all so that the founders can create it.

It's basically $200,000,000 into a kickstarter. What the absolute frell is going on there I have no idea.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#88
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum has the right play here though. They go to where the gold rush is and sell the shovels.

Ethereum has no "play" here, it isn't a platform made for token sales (aka "icos"), it's a generalistic platform that happens to have projects that do this sort of token sales.

The Ethereum founders do: they've managed to turn themselves into a certification/approval stamp of sorts. I've seen them slapped on as advisors for umpteen of these ICOs.

If I were them, I'd create a regulatory company and take a cut for "Ethereum-approved ICOs."

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#89
post #74

Rather than thinking about the businesses that currently are trying to get rich by doing ICOs, I'd like to point out that the idea of creating tokens out of thin-air, and having them obtain value purely by speculation, is an interesting system we should ponder more about. We're now capable, thanks to these consensus systems, of creating tokens that have certain properties. For instance Bitcoin is a specific kind of t…

Every automated job creates two new jobs: 1. Hardware, 2. Software.

Jobs aren't going anywhere, contrary to popular belief.

Re: What is an Initial Coin Offering and How Does it Work?

#90
While I think they're incredibly clever, I'm distrustful of cryptocurrencies and ethereum. So I'm putting ICOs into that basket as well. Still, they always garner a lot of attention, probably for their cleverness.

On the other hand, I'm very interested in Hyperledger (IBM Blockchain) [1] which gets scant attention here. Indeed this thread already has more comments than all of the Hyperledger threads combined.

Hyperledger is strongly influenced by ethereum and bitcoin. But instead of being slow (10 minute transactions), expensive (you're bidding for miners time), and anonymous (anonymous), Hyperledger is fast, cheap and identified.

And apparently boring.

[1] https://www.hyperledger.org/

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