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Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

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Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#311

Post by graniter »

ptero wrote: post #102
wanghq wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like there are lots of opportunities...for startups, to improve these areas.

Startups do well when they improve things for people who vote with their wallets (buying this or that service). Bureaucracies though are a completely different beast. Better value? Happier customers? They care not a bit. You need different levers to (sloooowly) move them.

Exactly. You can't enter the market and provide better service for "government administration." You could offer a service to help a person, but the person still has to go through it all.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#312

Post by graniter »

apatters wrote: post #163
ptero wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups do well when they improve things for people who vote with their wallets (buying this or that service). Bureaucracies though are a completely different beast. Better value? Happier customers? They care not a bit. You need different levers to (sloooowly) move them.

What are those levers? Are you aware of any examples where an effort to move them was successful?

I think competition among countries actually helps. Case in point: this visa program. They are trying to make it more streamlined and more attractive with a longer expiration. It is improvement in the right direction.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#313

Post by graniter »

tajen wrote: post #173
corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions (and it goes well beyond Mélenchon voters). You face hostility as soon as you make money, with consequences ranging from being denied places in the kindergarten to the "petit Gregory" affair where the 5 years old son of a newly promoted team leader was drowned. I'm trying to show off as much as I can that I'm sponsoring poverty, donating a lot, making…

Two of my kids are in lycee (high school) and some of the things they teach there are surprising. I can't speak for what you experienced, but I can say that what they teach in the lycee is not too far off of what you you wrote. Yet the government wants to recruit tech talent. Hmmm. However, most French people I know are not anti-capitalist. It might be more of an issue with the younger generation.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#314

Post by weberc2 »

palunon wrote: post #294
weberc2 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of Yankees and baseball hats, what is with the French and Yankee ball caps? I see them all over and never any other team. I always expect them to be Americans but they rarely are. Also I vouched for this submission after it was flagged. I don't believe you meant Yankee as a slur, and even if you did, I have better things to do today than be offended.

You may also see LA teams, but less often. I think it is because the logo looks cool, and american stuff is "cool". It's rarely a support of the team, and some people don't even know it is a team logo...

That was the impression I got. It seemed more like a brand sort of thing.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#315

Post by nulldev »

megido wrote: post #310
d--b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

I can speak about Netherlands. The process is super easy and super smooth. * I got my residence permit on 3rd day of arriving to country * I opened bank account on 4th day * I've opened my insurance by just going online and not talking to people at all Dutch system is performing very well on bringing tech talent. There's this "Expat Center" that handles whole stuff. In addition to that our company (Booking.com) makes…

Do you guys still work with a predominantly Perl stack?

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#316

Post by megido »

nulldev wrote: post #315
megido wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can speak about Netherlands. The process is super easy and super smooth. * I got my residence permit on 3rd day of arriving to country * I opened bank account on 4th day * I've opened my insurance by just going online and not talking to people at all Dutch system is performing very well on bringing tech talent. There's this "Expat Center" that handles whole stuff. In addition to that our company (Booking.com) makes…

Do you guys still work with a predominantly Perl stack?

Yeap. But lots of other stuff is also being used nowadays, including java, python, go, etc. depending on the product.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#317

Post by ishtu »

nulldev wrote: post #315
megido wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can speak about Netherlands. The process is super easy and super smooth. * I got my residence permit on 3rd day of arriving to country * I opened bank account on 4th day * I've opened my insurance by just going online and not talking to people at all Dutch system is performing very well on bringing tech talent. There's this "Expat Center" that handles whole stuff. In addition to that our company (Booking.com) makes…

Do you guys still work with a predominantly Perl stack?

Not sure about Booking, but at Catawiki (also NL-based) we are looking for Ruby developers willing to relocate.

Contact me via email in my profile if you are interested!

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#318

Post by graniter »

megido wrote: post #310
d--b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

I can speak about Netherlands. The process is super easy and super smooth. * I got my residence permit on 3rd day of arriving to country * I opened bank account on 4th day * I've opened my insurance by just going online and not talking to people at all Dutch system is performing very well on bringing tech talent. There's this "Expat Center" that handles whole stuff. In addition to that our company (Booking.com) makes…

This is how it should be done. Sounds like both the government and your company are doing it right and it's paying off because your are doing well recruiting talent. This is what France should do. But I do feel like there is some odd satisfaction in France both among the French and expats of having paid their dues, made it through the process and are sort of proud of it. Almost like they don;t want to make it too easy.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#319

Post by neversorry »

d--b wrote: post #230
graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

I can speak for Ireland. I am from a south asian country and the who process in Ireland has been a breeze.

Visa and permit? Easy. Just go to the office, present the documents and everything comes in post two weeks later.

Register with social welfare? great. Just go there and they set you up. You get a card and setup the account online. Everything else take care of by the employer and revenue departments.

Driving license? Take the written test and 300 euros for the lessons. If you pass, you can drive (with a driver with full license). Take the test 6 months later for full license.

Yes, here and there you do meet someone who tries to give you a hard time. but all in all, a very positive experience.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#320

Post by biztos »

weberc2 wrote: post #275
biztos wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are not higher everywhere, and where they are higher it's usually because there is really awesome infrastructure and a social safety net and other stuff you would normally want to finance collectively. Compare, say, the homeless situation in Berlin to that in San Francisco... or compare pretty much any bus system anywhere in the developed world to MUNI. One freedom Europeans have is freedom from fear of the pol…

Thanks for your response. Maybe taxes in California are crater than Croatia, but I would be very surprised if the average tax want much greater in Europe than in the US. Do you have specific places in mind? I also think fear of police is overblown in the US (maybe I would feel differently if my skin were a different color, but this doesn't appear to have a basis in data), and "freedom from fear of police" isn't reall…

The tax picture is complicated, as always, but consider Hungary, where VAT is very high (27%) but income tax is very low (15% flat tax). Vibrant tech scene, programmers are paid very well by local standards, etc.

Having gotten quite used to the mellow police of Europe (not that I've ever been arrested or anything) I find the militarized police of the US unnerving every time I go back. Not sure I'd call it a political freedom but having mostly-friendly cops even in a really big city is a big quality of life thing.

Plus, drinking beer on the tram (in Berlin) -- that's definitely a freedom you won't enjoy in California. :-)

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