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Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

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Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#301

Post by bernardlunn »

dottedmag wrote: post #298
d--b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

Russia->Norway. One visit to police station on arrival, everything else is done for you (by the state, not by the company!)

Wow, really, like single window immigration? Cool

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#302

Post by School-Cotton »

tom_mellior wrote: post #223
madaxe_again wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A département is not a suburb within a city - it's a large region of France, equivalent to a county in the UK, except with a totally different administrative setup.

That's true, but there is the special case of Paris, which is itself a département and has its suburbs (depending on how strictly you define the term) stretching over three to seven different départements. If you move within the Paris metropolitan area, it's easy to change département even while staying in the suburbs of the same city. Also, the large regions of France are called "régions" ;-)

Yes and you can be in a suburb of NYC and be in a different state!

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#304

Post by graniter »

ciconia wrote: post #297

As some here have posted disparaging comments about French bureaucracy, I'd like to share my own experience. I've have emigrated to France four years ago with my wife and our two kids. On the whole our experience dealing with the government has been quite positive. Yes, some stuff feels really backwards, like getting a bank account (it helps a lot if you have a big wad of cash to dangle in front of your banker, you'l…

I am all for learning French and doing it "their way." The challenge I've run into with it "just taking some time" is for some things you don't have time. Things need to be done at or by a certain time. Like setting up utilities, getting a bank account, housing, signing up for healthcare, enrolling kids in school, etc. Those can't take time, they need to be done as soon as possible. So you have to get them done before you are good at the language and before you understand the processes. Things have worked out for us but Year 1 was a constant scramble. Reducing the burden of all that I think it what would really help recruit talent.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#305

Post by aninhumer »

arethuza wrote: post #299
aninhumer wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a little more complicated than that. As I understand it, at the end of school Scottish students take "Higher" exams, and then can either apply to university then, or continue in school and take "Advanced Higher" exams first. And often people doing the latter can skip the first year of university. (As well as people from the UK with good A-level results.) So while there's the possibility to do an extra ye…

I'm from Scotland, went to a Scottish University and have a teenage son who just went through the process... Highers are taken at the end of 5th year - with the 6th year being used for topping up results if they weren't good enough, acquiring Advanced Highers - which are quite often not really required and going to parties... Some people go to Uni right after the highers (my wife did this and regretted it) and some g…

Yeah, I was just commenting as a former student in England (just realised I said UK above...) who looked into it briefly.

It sounds like you have far more experience of this, so thanks for elaborating.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#306

Post by peteretep »

rorykoehler wrote: post #289
peteretep wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That quote is substantially different from being against encryption. I mean, I'm not enthusiastic about his stance, but it's simply not what you're claiming.

You might be right however it's a slippery slope that we and I would hope the informed internet community must give no quarter. It's clear the nation state is an archaic institution that is slowly on it's way out. Naturally we cannot accept the authority of the nation state forever and giving such immense and misplaced power to such an actor (or any actor for that matter) will have seriously dire consequences. The en…

I'm not convinced hyperbole and statements -- like your original one -- that are substantially misleading are any way for intelligent people to make points.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#307

Post by chimeracoder »

oblio wrote: post #290
toyg wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't and it shouldn't. The French will never, ever agree to anything that officially places their language on a lower level. They might accept de-facto lingua franca status for English, but they'll never sign anything that mandates it or recognises it. Discussing language is a recipe for pointless strife; the next step really should be taxation standards. This said, the market is adjusting on its own. EU customer…

France doesn't even recognize any other language than French within France, as far as I know. They have no minority languages, even though they have, and used to have, minorities.

> France doesn't even recognize any other language than French within France

Officially, France (and the Academy) only barely recognize the existence of French spoken in their former colonies, and even then only when it's convenient (to maximize the count of the number of French speakers). They go out of their way to try to "preserve" the French that is spoken by white French people in France itself as the only official version of French, so they sure as heck aren't going to recognize other languages spoken in France by minorities other than French.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#308

Post by maccard »

d--b wrote: post #230
graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

I moved to the UK (from Ireland). It was relatively painless. No visas, no registration as a foreign worker, just show up and tell the JobCenter you need a National Insurance Number (which took almost a month from the first phone call to getting a cancallation, to getting the number in the post).

Getting a bank account was tricky though, most banks wanted a proof of address on a utility bill, but I couldn't sign up to sky/etc without a bank account. In the end, HSBC gave me an account with my passport as proof of who I said I was. Other than that, it was as difficult as moving city. Obviously not everyone has it this easy.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#309

Post by GordonS »

eyko wrote: post #185
GordonS wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a self taught dev with 15+ years' experience. I only got a degree a few years ago (did it while working). Honestly, I learned exactly nothing useful that I didn't already know. I do a lot of hiring and, in my experience, having a degree (or indeed the class/score of said degree) has no relation to the real-world abilities of candidates.

I'm thinking of getting a degree while working too. Do you think it's worth it? Perhaps if only to make life easier... I dropped out of uni in my last year due to family/personal issues but I've been working in tech for over 12 years now. I've never needed to show a degree here in the UK but back home (Spain) it used to be an issue. Recently the opportunity to relocate to the USA came up with my employer but I sort o…

Like it or not, a lot of employers won't even look at your CV if you don't have a degree. Also, if you do want to work outside of the EU, it is very likely that not having a degree will be an impediment to getting a visa (and not just for the USA).

So yes, as silly as I think it is, I do think overall it's worth it.

If you want to do it while working, I can highly recommend the Open University. While I didn't really learn anything I didn't already know with a Computing degree, there is a large choice of courses, the course materials were really good, and the remote tutoring system works well.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#310

Post by megido »

d--b wrote: post #230
graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

I can speak about Netherlands. The process is super easy and super smooth.

* I got my residence permit on 3rd day of arriving to country

* I opened bank account on 4th day

* I've opened my insurance by just going online and not talking to people at all

Dutch system is performing very well on bringing tech talent. There's this "Expat Center" that handles whole stuff. In addition to that our company (Booking.com) makes your move even smoother by assisting your relocation and by providing you temporary stay until you find your dreamy apartment.

Please be welcomed at Booking.com in Amsterdam headquarters!

* software developer: http://grnh.se/0fotp8

* front-end developer: http://grnh.se/xl658q

* product owner (e-commerce): http://grnh.se/6gfqds

* ux designer: http://grnh.se/1qhylg

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