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Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

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Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#281

Post by grp »

xiaoma wrote: post #245
grp wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and they would never have needed a special visa. It's sad, there is so much myths and fantasies around those specific guys.

It's not a "myth" or "fantasy" that they didn't have master's degrees. To the best of knowledge any of them would have needed a visa to go to France, and one of them did in fact live in Canada and then the US on visas before naturalising and starting three separate billion dollar companies along the way.

Please, don't misunderstand me.

special visa doesn't mean no visa.

myths and fantasies are not about their degrees but more on the public image we have of us who do more harm than good in my opinion.

"Rather than placing tech leaders on a pedestal, we should put their successes in context..." [1]

I would never advise someone to drop school without a strong family background, a solid bubble opportunity or just luck. And I don't like schools, for me they are clearly not the best places to learn, just to network.

[1] https://www.technologyreview.com/s/539861/techs-enduring-gre...

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#282

Post by corford »

dustinmoris wrote: post #159
corford wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as trades/professions are concerned, you need a degree or a certificate of some kind for virtually everything in France (from being a hairdresser all the way up to doctors/lawyers).

That's so fucking backwards. France was, is and will remain a shit place for any serious entrepreneur. Literally no single unicorn founder from the US would have satisfied these old fashioned conservative anti-progression requirements.

It's more nuanced than it seems on the surface. I started with a similar opinion but I have to say there is something to be said for everyone from hairdressers on up actually having some form of relevant qualification. At least for the trades etc. - you end up with much more knowledgeable practitioners.

There are problems though: it leads to very early specialisation (when someone fresh out of school may still not be exactly sure what they want to do) and makes it difficult to hop between different trades/jobs (since you need to re-train in a lot of cases).

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#283

Post by weberc2 »

wott wrote: post #79

> I paid $650 for less than half of [600 sq ft] in rural France. No way. Or you came with a baseball hat saying "I am a rich Yankee, please swindle me" on the front and "I like to pay twice the regular price" on the back.

Speaking of Yankees and baseball hats, what is with the French and Yankee ball caps? I see them all over and never any other team. I always expect them to be Americans but they rarely are.

Also I vouched for this submission after it was flagged. I don't believe you meant Yankee as a slur, and even if you did, I have better things to do today than be offended.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#284

Post by corford »

_kyran wrote: post #200
tajen wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions (and it goes well beyond Mélenchon voters). You face hostility as soon as you make money, with consequences ranging from being denied places in the kindergarten to the "petit Gregory" affair where the 5 years old son of a newly promoted team leader was drowned. I'm trying to show off as much as I can that I'm sponsoring poverty, donating a lot, making…

This is true. I've spent the past couple of months in various areas of France. I can't speak for all ages, but the youth are incredibly passionate about politics and many hold strong anti capitalism beliefs and will enthusiastically riot at the chance to have their opinions heard.

It's more anecdote/speculation on my part than fact but I noticed many (most?) families would vote as a block on historic lines. So, if your mother and father were left, everyone in the family would always vote left (regardless of candidate/current manifesto), likewise for right leaning families.

What I love about Macron is his unashamed centerist approach. It's new in France and I hope he has ushered in a new dimension to French politics that sticks and makes it more normal for people to vote for different parties each time based on what a manifesto actually says and who's running for elected office.

Macron reminds me a little of 1997 in the UK and Tony Blair. Let's hope he avoids turning in to a war criminal in a few years time... :)

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#285

Post by scottLobster »

Danihan wrote: post #111
scottLobster wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Europe wonders why it doesn't have any serious Facebook/Google competitors. An engineer is anyone who uses technology to solve a problem. Now there's a massive spectrum of quality there, but a piece of paper or two and some classwork doesn't make you an engineer. Or even a particularly good engineer. Just the other day I explained how Hash Tables work to someone with a Masters.

Was it a masters in CS?

Yep.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#286

Post by muninn_ »

computereye wrote: post #156
rockinghigh wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also not true. Carrefour and Auchan stores in France can be the same size as the big Walmart stores in the US.

I agree. In addition, food quality is miles ahead

No it's not. Plus the selection in American grocery stores is far superior.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#287

Post by oblio »

palunon wrote: post #270
user5994461 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a French who migrated off, going to the UK was so easy. I can't begin to imagine the burden a non speaking French person would have to go through to migrate to France.

Note that immigration inside the EU is way easier than with other countries. You don't need a visa, working permit, special bank account (for US citizens, since the bank must report income, etc, to the US gov), your driving license is valid, etc.

And immigration to the EU for someone not coming from developed countries is waaaaaaay harder than for someone coming from the US & co.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#288

Post by scottLobster »

pjmlp wrote: post #211
scottLobster wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Europe wonders why it doesn't have any serious Facebook/Google competitors. An engineer is anyone who uses technology to solve a problem. Now there's a massive spectrum of quality there, but a piece of paper or two and some classwork doesn't make you an engineer. Or even a particularly good engineer. Just the other day I explained how Hash Tables work to someone with a Masters.

Lots of American tech in Facebook and Google has been created by Europeans with degrees that decided to work in US. Should I make a list?

Sure, but by this program's criteria a lot of those people probably wouldn't be considered "Engineers" in their home countries, all because they don't have a piece of paper from some meaningless authority.

From my admittedly limited exposure to the continent and knowing my sister's experience with Swiss Bureaucracy, I can only imagine European government workers get high off the ink from all the rubber stamps required.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#289

Post by rorykoehler »

peteretep wrote: post #250
rorykoehler wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should google it for more infos. Here is a quote from the man himself: "If I am elected, France will launch a major initiative beginning this summer targeting the major Internet providers, so that they agree to the legal seizure of data from their encrypted services as part of the fight against terrorism"

That quote is substantially different from being against encryption. I mean, I'm not enthusiastic about his stance, but it's simply not what you're claiming.

You might be right however it's a slippery slope that we and I would hope the informed internet community must give no quarter. It's clear the nation state is an archaic institution that is slowly on it's way out. Naturally we cannot accept the authority of the nation state forever and giving such immense and misplaced power to such an actor (or any actor for that matter) will have seriously dire consequences. The end result will be the same however it may take us 10 or 20 extra, bloody, years to get there.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#290

Post by oblio »

toyg wrote: post #192
nraynaud wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, but the Brits are were pain in the butt so we decided not to use English for that role, because that would be rewarding a kid for throwing his feces at a party. When they are gone, I guess the discussion could be re-opened.

It won't and it shouldn't. The French will never, ever agree to anything that officially places their language on a lower level. They might accept de-facto lingua franca status for English, but they'll never sign anything that mandates it or recognises it. Discussing language is a recipe for pointless strife; the next step really should be taxation standards. This said, the market is adjusting on its own. EU customer…

France doesn't even recognize any other language than French within France, as far as I know. They have no minority languages, even though they have, and used to have, minorities.
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