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Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

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Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#181

Post by peteretep »

nraynaud wrote: post #177
zmb_ wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to speak half decent French After having lived and worked in multiple EU countries, I'm convinced that language is the single biggest barrier to true freedom of movement of workers in the EU. In Germany, for example, you cannot assume any daily task can be accomplished without the German language. You're then faced with either constantly dealing with communication problems with everything in your life,…

Yep, but the Brits are were pain in the butt so we decided not to use English for that role, because that would be rewarding a kid for throwing his feces at a party. When they are gone, I guess the discussion could be re-opened.

Or when we come crawling back, which I am hopeful is becoming an ever larger possibility

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#182

Post by peteretep »

rorykoehler wrote: post #115
corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

On top of this Macron wants to ban encryption (just like May in the UK). It all sounds like lip service and bluster from here.

Last time I asked for a source on this it was him agreeing with a tangential talking point of May's. Can you source this more comprehensively?

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#183

Post by _pmf_ »

biztos wrote: post #167

Four years renewable is nice, but the higher tiers of "international tech talent" employees are usually eligible for a permanent residence permit in Germany. Does France have anything to compete with that, other than better food?

> Does France have anything to compete with that, other than better food?

Are our pig intestine based 4000 kcal per serving culinary offerings not good enough for your palate?

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#184

Post by nraynaud »

sgroppino wrote: post #19

It will be interesting to see how French engineers and computer scientists see this type of visa. The perhaps equivalent H1B visa in the US is or was obviously a big plus in certain areas but was lately perceived as an abuse channel to get cheap labour to replace the locals. Hopefully this scheme won't be abused...

French cheap labor is in Northern Africa (for french-speaking employees) and in Eastern Europe (for EU nationals), not in the US.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#185

Post by eyko »

GordonS wrote: post #39
pjmlp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it should be. We don't have people calling themselves engineers just because can type a few lines of code.

I'm a self taught dev with 15+ years' experience. I only got a degree a few years ago (did it while working). Honestly, I learned exactly nothing useful that I didn't already know. I do a lot of hiring and, in my experience, having a degree (or indeed the class/score of said degree) has no relation to the real-world abilities of candidates.

I'm thinking of getting a degree while working too. Do you think it's worth it? Perhaps if only to make life easier...

I dropped out of uni in my last year due to family/personal issues but I've been working in tech for over 12 years now. I've never needed to show a degree here in the UK but back home (Spain) it used to be an issue. Recently the opportunity to relocate to the USA came up with my employer but I sort of rejected the offer since I assumed that getting a visa might be a bit of a hassle without a degree.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#186

Post by peteretep »

GuiA wrote: post #118
davidivadavid wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. At the university, a "master" is something you get after studying for 5 years, roughly. After 3 years, you get a "licence", which is equivalent to a BA/BS. Engineering schools use a slightly different system, but it's roughly equivalent.

Yeah that's the big debate, isn't it? Is a 4 years anglophone BSc equivalent to a 3 years european Licence, or 5 years Master? When I was applying to grad schools in the US, my French undergrad was not recognized as a proper undergrad - it had to be a 5 year Master (I snuck around that restriction by spending a year in the UK and getting a british BSc). But of course, French institutions consider 4 years american deg…

Most UK BScs are 3 years (aren't they?), so Anglophone is misleading

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#187

Post by Hasknewbie »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #53
weberc2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find European culture and history alluring, but I don't think Europe is somehow "more free" than the U.S., in particular, you guys have much more regulation and far greater taxes. Maybe you have a greater quality of life by certain measures, but I think the freedom point is hard to defend. Maybe I'm wrong?

You are not. In fact Europe tends to be worse. The main reason is, that law is now made in Brussels and people have no idea what's going on there. In the past years we have seen a huge flip to the right side. The eastern nations are largely in the hands of ultra-right wing politicians even worse than Trump. Germany stands but wait for the election this year and that might be gone, too. Britain is already leaving the…

>> The main reason is, that law is now made in Brussels and people have no idea what's going on there.

False but typical argument. Some laws are voted in Brussels, all such laws have to be approved by the Europen Parliament whose members are directly elected (you elected a MEP, remember?), and many such laws are just harmonization of local laws that already existed in most member states.

The moment where we may have 'no idea' is when a law is drafted and negociated behind closed doors by the Commission, i.e the EU governments' representatives (your government and my government) who then conveniently blames Brussels for said 'closed doors', when it suits them.

There are reforms to be made in the EU for sure, but saying it is all-encompassing and secret is a mischaracterisation. The info is out there, it's just not spoon-fed to you by the media, mostly because it's boring. For example, what is being voted on can be accessed here: http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-european-parliament-latest-...

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#188

Post by arethuza »

biztos wrote: post #167

Four years renewable is nice, but the higher tiers of "international tech talent" employees are usually eligible for a permanent residence permit in Germany. Does France have anything to compete with that, other than better food?

Warmer beaches, fantastic skiing and mountain sports...

And the food is quite a big factor. :-)

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#189

Post by sangnoir »

andrewstuart wrote: post #97
seiferteric wrote: post #8

Wow you have to have a graduate degree to even be an eligible employee, never mind.

That would have excluded Bill Gates, Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs.

...as well as millions of other non-graduates you never heard of, with good reason. For any random field, it is easy to pick outliers. The question is, what matters more to you - rejecting a few false negatives or a lot more false positives.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#190

Post by [deleted] »

tajen wrote: post #173
corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions (and it goes well beyond Mélenchon voters). You face hostility as soon as you make money, with consequences ranging from being denied places in the kindergarten to the "petit Gregory" affair where the 5 years old son of a newly promoted team leader was drowned. I'm trying to show off as much as I can that I'm sponsoring poverty, donating a lot, making…

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