I'm a creep. I'm sorry • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#211

Post by Zarath » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:37 AM UTC

rburhum wrote: post #186

aortega wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Or is this just not OK at all? You are asking single 18-30 year old who spend most of their waking hours at work, to not make any advance to the only females they probably see in the week. Good luck with trying to fight nature.

sorry dude, but that is not an acceptable answer. We live in a society - with moral and legal structures of what is acceptable. During my the life of this startup and the previous one I have gotten f'ed over royally by a small amount of individuals where they infuriated me incredibly. "nature" would have made me punch them in the face - but that is incredibly unacceptable behavior in a society or work environment. Yo…

I think most normal/adult people don't want to live in a world where you can't ask out your coworker.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#212

Post by ithinkinstereo » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:38 AM UTC

welcome_dragon wrote: post #56

I for one am happy to see a true apology here, not an "I'm sorry if I offended you" statement that so many people make the days. This has all the points of a proper apology: an understanding of the wrong committed, acknowledging that it was his fault, and demonstrating commitment to change. It also appears to be sincere

It's a qualified apology. I dislike how he not-so-subtly tries to justify his actions by painting a context that delegitimizes Sarah's claims.

It's worth noting that Sarah claims that many other women contacted her with similar stories of harassment, the fact that all of them are also women of color is especially telling (as were all of Caldbeck's victims).

I mean if he wants to bring up contextual details, maybe McClure should mention that like Caldbeck, he is also married. So how more scummy can you be? A sexist harasser and an adulterer. These guys are only sorry they got caught and are now back pedaling to save some face.

People need to understand that this type of behavior causes terrible damage on the victims which can last for years and often leave permanent scars. So it's especially fucked up and unjust that people like McClure and Caldbeck, when caught, can simply make a half-assed -- and in the case of Caldbeck and Sacca, narcissistic -- apology; lay low for a few months; and then jump right back as if nothing happened.

For fuck's sake one of the LPs at Binary knew about Caldbeck's reputation and harassment issues and still invested.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#213

Post by genieyclo » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:39 AM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #209

genieyclo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

No. That's not right. Don't be stupid. People meet romantic partners and spouses at work all the time - are they all sexual harassers? The true answer is: "It depends".

Don't shit where you eat is a sensible, safe rule to live by; ymmv.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#214

Post by Zarath » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:39 AM UTC

deepGem wrote: post #173

hendzen wrote: post #142

Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment. Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest?…

I think there are many polite ways of expressing interest, just like you would express interest in any other social setting. I don't think that's inappropriate at all - for example to politely ask out for a coffee, obviously not at the workplace, but somewhere outside. However, in the light of recent activities, I would be quite cautious of any such moves, inherently. The last thing you want is for your actions to be…

Nobody reasonable is going to misinterpret a request for coffee as sexual harassment unless you are socially inept.

"Hey, do you want to get coffee sometime?"

"Oh, no thanks"

"Ok, cool. No problem"

Proceed to move on with your life.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#215

Post by saghm » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:40 AM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #158

tarr11 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although the percentage is declining, many relationships still begin at work [1] The real issue is a power imbalance, but this issue also exists in other settings as well. Alcohol inhibits your judgement, but many people can successfully consume alcohol without adverse social consequences. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/08/how-m...

This cut both ways. Power inbalance has the problem that sex is a extremely common strategy for gaining power in human societies. Predators can take any side on the relationship.

All the more reason not to engage (or attempt to initiate) a sexual or romantic relationship with a subordinate or superior.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#216

Post by WikipediasBad » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:40 AM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #156

hendzen wrote: post #142

Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment. Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest?…

I think asking coworkers out is a huge no-no. If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development. However, let's say you have a robust personal life, and you just have this absolutely amazing co-worker, who totally is not your subordinate, and ideally you don't even work directly with, and you want to ask them out... again.. I d…

>If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development.

Then a very, very significant portion (quite possibly close to half of the population, or approaching thereof in some fields) have personal life developmental problems......or....it could just be that your world view or definition of "appropriate" is a bit off. Which one of those situations is more likely?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#217

Post by l33tbro » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:43 AM UTC

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

Nailed it. This is thinly-veiled damage control. While he may genuinely be sorry, his plea for recompense should be directed privately at those his actions affected. A self-effacing blog post like this reads to me as code for "please don't blacklist me in the valley".

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#218

Post by nulldev » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

Dzugaru wrote: post #19

I can't help it but I can't find any reason to consider this as having > 0 information. You are absolutely forced and 100% expected to do this in a situation now, right? I, honestly, find this very disturbing (black mirror way), regardless of my opinion on the matter at hand.

> You are absolutely forced and 100% expected to do this in a situation now, right?

Not remotely. Just look at any of the recent Fox News harassment scandals, or literally anything involving the current POTUS.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#219

Post by Rusky » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

spydum wrote: post #132

learc83 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there is a big power difference for one. If you have control over someone's livelihood, propositioning them is inappropriate.

Just curious doesn't this further stratify the power classes? I can't make advances on someone who earns less than me now?

Just earning more isn't the problem. Having control over their career is.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#220

Post by Xunxi » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #194

A lot of people here seem to not understand the power imbalance point, so I'd like to explain it. Imagine you're in these positions: --Being arrested, and an officer makes a romantic advance --On trial, and the judge makes a romantic advance --In therapy, and the therapist makes a romantic advance --At the doctor, and the doctor makes a romantic advance --At the bank, and the banker makes a romantic advance --In a re…

Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, figuring out the ends sorts out the means. There have also been instances where the other party recoils and indicts the proposal. It is the reality of life even though some might disagree.

Nonetheless, workplace relationship is emotionally dicey and avoiding it is a safer bet.