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Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

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Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#51

Nobody is accusing you of sexual harassment. They said what they said. You are making some woman uncomfortable. Try to first believe what they said instead of getting paranoid. You are an intern and probably don't have a lot experience on professional behavior. You might be trying to get be friendly but that is coming out as creepy. Stop trying to do small talk if the other people don't start small talk with you neve…

I'm not sure I would consider your advice on never initiating non-business related small talk to be so bullet proof, particularly when we get into issues of "creepiness", which is a term that isn't often well defined or viewed in the same light by differing people.

Now there are definitely behaviors that I think can easily be labeled as creepy(leering at people, making inappropriate physical contact, asking too many unwanted personal questions, etc) but there are other behaviors that are harder to automatically equate as such. As an example, I tend to be relatively introverted, and extremely private when it comes to discussing my personal life, this is especially true at work or with people I don't know well. As a result, I typically don't engage in small talk at work, and seeing as I rarely ever bring up my personal life, I very rarely ask about others. This isn't to say I'm not cordial, but when at work I prefer to simply focus on getting stuff done.

At one prior job, I worked with an extremely extroverted and talkative group, not gossipy or inappropriate, but simply gregarious. I would obviously join in when directly asked but I was always hesitant to initiate this kind of discussion. I did over a long period of time end up becoming close friends with one of my coworkers, at which point he let me know that when I first started some of my coworkers thought it was somewhat creepy that I never talked much about my private life.

I only relay this situation to point out how difficult it can be to navigate these kinds of interpersonal relationships, particularly in larger groups. One person's reluctance to discuss their weekend plans, which to me was completely benign, can be another person's creepiness. Just to be clear though, I absolutely think there are behaviors that are very unequivocally creepy or unwarranted, I'm not trying to argue that this is always, or even mostly, a matter of personal interpretation.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#52
post #48

Accusing you without specific reason so you cannot defend yourself is a bad form harassing. Consider to step up and demand either specifics of the accusation so you can defend yourself, or all charges being dropped immediately in combination of an excuse from your employer. Check your local law if you could threaten to sue them for misconduct if they are not willing to cooperate. Consider not to comply with their dem…

Thanks for your input! I have toyed with the idea of meeting with management and making such demands, but between being nervous of getting fired sooner than my internship already ending, I am reluctant to do so. On the other hand, I feel this may be good practice on how to approach a similar situation should one arise, and when I am in a permanent position. The single co-worker I asked (and generally confide in) was very shocked to hear this and had nothing bad to say about how I handle myself around other people in the company.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#53

> believe that question was cleared up once they responded to me that they were going to see their boyfriend/girlfriend. This sentence is kind of interesting. So, you were 'just making small talk', until they told you they had a boy/girlfriend, and then, you just ... stopped 'making smalltalk'? :-P

Where in that sentence do you get the idea that he "stopped 'making smalltalk'" after "they told [him] they had a boy/girlfriend"?

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#54
post #43

My brother (manager) has been confronted to a similar situation, except that he was accused of moral harassement. The employee complained about it to the director of human ressource. They reacted swiftly. They hired an independent and specialized company to investigate the matter. The conclusion was that it was a fake accusation. This is the correct behaviour in face of any kind of accusation between employees. This…

What is moral harassment?

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#55
post #47

Nobody is accusing you of sexual harassment. They said what they said. You are making some woman uncomfortable. Try to first believe what they said instead of getting paranoid. You are an intern and probably don't have a lot experience on professional behavior. You might be trying to get be friendly but that is coming out as creepy. Stop trying to do small talk if the other people don't start small talk with you neve…

What about the professional social skills of the person that made the complaint? Couldn't she have raised the matter personally instead of going straight to a manager? And how toxic is a workplace where you can be accused of unspecified behaviours by some unknown co-worker and be automatically on the wrong side, without any clue as to know who accused you and why?

After sleeping on it, this is sort of how I feel. I would have personally gone to see someone who is bothering me to let them know before going straight to management. And if I felt extremely uncomfortable, then perhaps I would ask if management could be present in a meeting between me and the person who I feel bothered by.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#56
You should ask what you did so that you can avoid doing it again. If they can't tell you why then you know it's all BS company politics.

> I was told to be not talk to women at the office unless absolutely necessary regarding business matters.

When you are at work you should only be talking about work anyway, regardless of who. I wouldn't take this too harshly.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#57
post #45

Not judging you but it could just be that you might come across as """creepy""" (notice the three pairs of quotes here). The issue is that you're in a hyper sensitive environment with hyper sensitive people. If you try and initiate a conversation with certain women (even to be polite because you dgaf about them) that dislike you, it can be considered """pushy""" and/or """creepy""" (even though there's no objective p…

Thanks for your commend and advice! Definitely looking forward to keeping my head low and seeing how much more I can accomplish in these next few months I have left. I believe I fall into the socially-awkward/inexperienced category. Are there any resources you could suggest to learn more about social dynamics?

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#58

> The company has told me they do not have the budget to hire me full-time or extend my internship Were you told this AFTER these apparently unfounded accusations?

And are you in competition with any female for a position? Are there female interns? If so, suspect those individuals.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#59
I have been in a similar position fairly recently, although what was done was I was laid off without cause & without discussing anything - I was tipped off what I was accused of by someone privy to the details, and although I was fine with being laid off, the accusations did not match the reality.

In my case, having explained the details to my friends (including several females) and discussing with a former female coworker at that company, my mind was put at ease somewhat as to what was actually my fault (I wasn't blameless, but I did not do sexual harassment - there are some greater responsibilities that I failed on as a manager that was my primary fault). I was also already debating leaving the company at that point because I was dissatisfied with higher management, and it turned out to be a major blessing for me.

My recommendation is to keep work strictly work as much as possible. Small talk is fine, but when you spend time outside of work hanging out with coworkers, especially on the weekends or separate away from other coworkers (i.e. just another coworker and you), you put yourself at risk potentially. It sounds like what you did might be ok, but of course we don't know the full details so it's hard to really give an accurate assessment. One should be guarded in the event one has coworkers who aren't well-meaning, which is always certainly a possibility & the disproportionate damage that can occur sadly makes it important to be watchful & behave accordingly.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#60

Linus Torvalds was targeted. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/06/linus_torvalds_targe... Also, the pervasive drive-by meddling of SJWs to brow-beat FOSS projects into accepting their Code of Conduct is further bullshit that is reinforced by well-meaning people that think it's a good thing to state the obvious, but then add a bunch of vague powers that can kick people out without due process.

SJW - Social Justice Warrior I'm guessing?
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