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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#431

Post by watwut »

curun1r wrote: post #420
voidlogic wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. To be fair, even an asshole may show some restraint when they have a clear understanding of consequences. Thinking their money buys them immunity from consequence is an enabler as they don't believe they have the slightest need for this kind of rational self-interest. You are both right, an asshole is an asshole as you suggest, but even so, assholes ar…

[flagged]

If she touch his junk or send him text invitation for sex, then absolutely we should call it harassment and call that out.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#432

Post by honestoHeminway »

Clearly the valley has no problem with social isolated tech-types rising to power- and not advancing socially. Sorry, this is not just a moral problem- its the problem of a socially self isolating caste coming by rise to power back into human contact and then abusing it.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#433

Post by kasikp »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #335
voidlogic wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. To be fair, even an asshole may show some restraint when they have a clear understanding of consequences. Thinking their money buys them immunity from consequence is an enabler as they don't believe they have the slightest need for this kind of rational self-interest. You are both right, an asshole is an asshole as you suggest, but even so, assholes ar…

I think it's important to distinguish that these aren't people who are necessarily assholes to everyone. They have plenty of friends and acquaintances who would never believe they'd do something like this. And others who upon hearing it, would've assumed it was a harmless misunderstanding. I think one of the larger problems that society is struggling with is the idea that two different people can be in very similar p…

Exactly. This article helped me understand the whole situation a bit better: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-...

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#434

Post by honestoHeminway »

ridruejo wrote: post #340
ronilan wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. Never attribute to rational decision making what can be attributed to rotten character.

They act that way because the other person is in a vulnerable position. Most of them will shrink pretty fast when confronted by someone who is not. So they are "selective assholes" so to speak.

kickin downwards lickin upwards, thats the why we all love hierarchical companys so much.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#435

Post by nostrademons »

vostok wrote: post #183
api wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am white and male and the misogyny I've observed in tech has annoyed me . If it annoys me it must be intolerable to women. I believe every word of it and I could tell a few stories of things I've seen. I've seen a lot of other kinds of assholery too. Tech has an underbelly just like any other major industry. FWIW I've heard Hollywood and Wall St. are worse.

Have worked on Wall Street. It's not worse.

I'd question that. My wife is a former bond trader. At one point, the guys on her trading desk took her out to drinks, and one asked her, "So, are you still a virgin?" She was about 25 at the time.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#436

Post by watwut »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #168
dkarl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cringe is the wrong word. We cringe when we watch The Office and see people make social mistakes without meaning to. These are not unwitting social mistakes. This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Furthermore, not having met any of these people but speculating based on my experience, I would guess that their motivations go beyond just looking for sex and knowing that one ti…

I know many people like that, and no, they don't derive an enjoyable power trip out of being rejected at all. Theybdon't know they can get away with it. They don't know that they are doing it . These people are rarely evil and predatory. They usually genuinely believe that the behavior they are exhibiting is desireable. They think that this is how the game is played, and these things are a form of peacocking. They th…

Nope. Are you trying thay rape culture is a thing and dudes really need special courses on how to not be harassers? That does not describe or culture or majority of dudes in any way. Our culture is full of signals that harassment is wrong.

It is also quite unlikely that people who climb the ladder and successfully play "impress investors and people around" social skills game are so clueless magically when they are alone with women. Somehow they manage to be cluefull when acting like a peacock would harm their career.

I would believe claim about dumbass, if we would talk about dude down in the basement that insulted CEO last week. Then yeah, he is clueless. But in cases here, it is really too much benefit of doubt.

Not everyone who likes to take advantage of other person (including when genders are reversed) is clueless.

Majority of men including those on the spectrum are not like that. When you claim that this is normal misunderstanding, you throw shadow on them too.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#437

Post by ethanwillis »

ingenuous2 wrote: post #238
rl3 wrote: post #7

This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be…

What if the choice were "no investment or attention" versus "creepy attention and small investment"? Entrepreneurs are so willing to sacrifice, and this should not be the situation, but what if it is? How many of us males would accept these types of advances in order to get our idea funded? To think that we can remove power from sex is misguided. There were times during my startup that I would have wished for the att…

I personally wouldn't want unwanted sexual advances to get money for a startup.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#438

Post by likelynew »

austenallred wrote: post #18

I had always heard the constant murmur of sexual harassment happening in the Valley, but I was never sure if there was any merit to it. I anecdotally had never seen anything that would even come close to a situation like those described, so I kind of brushed it off. But then articles like these come out. Wow. These are some of the kingpins of Silicon Valley shown sexually harassing with hard, factual evidence. I had…

Just out of curiosity, are you male or female?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#439

Post by ableton »

linkregister wrote: post #402
ableton wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for being honest. Currently the west is pretty much attempting to eliminate gender. The problem is, humans are biologically not much different than they were 1000 years ago. So while there are these high ideals about a basically gender neutral society, the reality is that it does not, and in fact cannot exist. Currently we are in a weird time in history where people do not understand that there is a very good…

The West? The ratio of women board members, executives, and engineers is far higher in China than in the U.S. I think you're being down voted because of a combination of false premises and arguing a strawman, "eliminate gender." Nobody is trying to do that.

I wasn't comparing the west to China. I just don't know a whole lot about feminism over there so I didn't include it.

Gender is the distinction between men and women. If you eliminate the distinction, which feminism is trying to do as quickly as possible (along with LGBTQFHTKEO), you eliminate the concept of gender alltogether.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#440

Post by watwut »

> a volunteer organization who went directly from "I don't think I can see a movie tonight" to "This situation is making me uncomfortable" with nothing in between.

She tried to tell you gently in the way girls are taught to reject men while still being nice to them. If you reject dude other way, some tend to t get insulted anyway.

You did not get it, so she informed you flat out about how she really think about the situation. You got angry :).

Don't force us to walk super tight balancing act where being nice is too subtle, but telling it flat out is wrong and there are maybe two magical phrases (different for every guy) that are allowed. For one, not every girl has such super high social skills. For the other, there is no way to win in that situation.

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