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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

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421–430 of 882 posts

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always DEN. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaRTZpJgPA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Entertainment_Network Isn't that guy still running the Bitcoin Foundation? https://arstechnica.com/business/2014/05/some-in-bitcoin-gro... He has a history of doing business with other creepy people, too. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/stephen-bannon-w... https://www.wired.com/2016/09/trumps-campaign-ceo…

If you havent watched "An Open Secret" (about DEN) then you dont know how deep the rabbit hole goes... If you didnt believe in #PG prior, DEN's documentary; an open secret may just change your mind... https://youtu.be/4eeGX4SlF1s?t=1595

The rabbit hole now goes high up, as well as deep.

"In the months ahead, IGE hired more adults, a slew of VPs with decades of industry experience among them. The company also brought on a former Goldman Sachs investment banker named Stephen Bannon, whose mission was to land venture capital."

https://www.wired.com/2008/11/ff-ige/

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High functioning sociopaths. A person can be an asshole and not know it. A sociopath knows they're not acting within acceptable social norms and hides it. These investors are sociopaths. An asshole will make a comment and not deny it. A sociopath will try to twist it into a seemingly logical action ie "I was just trying to get rid of her because I didn't like her idea." By that logic who knows how many Jehovah's witn…

>High functioning sociopaths. That's actually a medical/psychiatric diagnosis. I don't really think it applies here (or maybe it does, I don't know, I only know that you can't just throw that casually at run-of-the mill creeps).

I believe OP was referring to the studied fact that leaders and business moguls tend to exhibit many more of the sociopathic check points than the ordinary person.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know many people like that, and no, they don't derive an enjoyable power trip out of being rejected at all. Theybdon't know they can get away with it. They don't know that they are doing it. These people are rarely evil and predatory. They usually genuinely believe that the behavior they are exhibiting is desirable. Basically, power corrupts. Being a boss, an investor, or an employer comes with power. Just having t…

> To me, this is the sort of "fainting couch" feminism that regards women as only potential victims who can't stand up for themselves and who must be protected by others. It's not fainting couch feminism, it's pragmatic feminism. These interactions happen in a context where peoples' livelihoods, their hopes and dreams, are on the line. Are you going to expect them to jeopardize that by overtly calling someone out? Th…

I think the point that the parent commenter is missing, and you're not illustrating, is that women are very frequently propositioned in the workplace.

To stcredzero, he's innocuously asking a woman colleague of equal rank, who he has rapport with, out to a movie. He sees it as an opportunity to develop a relationship that could lead to a happy marriage. He doesn't get that many opportunities due to various reasons, so he's taking the chance he has.

She sees it as yet another colleague asking her out, when it's likely another male colleague asked her on a date that very morning, along with the dude on BART and one on the street as she walked to work.

The workplace should be focused on work, not another place where a woman has to be on guard.

People do form romantic relationships from working relationships. This should be approached with the utmost of care, because the workplace isn't the appropriate place.

The appropriate place is social events, with mutual friends; a Tinder date; a friendship struck at your local Linux Users Group meetup (you never know), etc.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. To be fair, even an asshole may show some restraint when they have a clear understanding of consequences. Thinking their money buys them immunity from consequence is an enabler as they don't believe they have the slightest need for this kind of rational self-interest. You are both right, an asshole is an asshole as you suggest, but even so, assholes ar…

[flagged]

Intellectual consistency would require acknowledging the systematic repression of women in western history (not being able to vote, etc), and thus, the effects of what is still a patriarchial culture as often as not.

In other words, your argument attempts to ignore simple historical facts which you can verify easily on Wikipedia.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. To be fair, even an asshole may show some restraint when they have a clear understanding of consequences. Thinking their money buys them immunity from consequence is an enabler as they don't believe they have the slightest need for this kind of rational self-interest. You are both right, an asshole is an asshole as you suggest, but even so, assholes ar…

I think it's important to distinguish that these aren't people who are necessarily assholes to everyone. They have plenty of friends and acquaintances who would never believe they'd do something like this. And others who upon hearing it, would've assumed it was a harmless misunderstanding. I think one of the larger problems that society is struggling with is the idea that two different people can be in very similar p…

How does their niceness in other situations matter?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know many people like that, and no, they don't derive an enjoyable power trip out of being rejected at all. Theybdon't know they can get away with it. They don't know that they are doing it . These people are rarely evil and predatory. They usually genuinely believe that the behavior they are exhibiting is desireable. They think that this is how the game is played, and these things are a form of peacocking. They th…

I think you're pretty close to 100% correct here. My one addition would be that with our level of connectedness, it would require an insane amount of self control for an individual (male) to be of the mindset 'I take the things I want at work' and not have slip ups of the sort we're seeing here (inappropriate messages etc.) Because this disclaimer seems necessary in posts like this, I am in no way condoning his actio…

To say it requires an "insane" level of self control is ridiculous.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#427

News flash: finance guys have predatory attitudes toward women. OK, not news at all. VC is part of the finance industry. No, it's not "disruptive" or in opposition to that industry in any way. Just look at who's putting all that money in before it's doled back out to entrepreneurs. Look at who has the power to force someone like McClure out. Yep, just a differently decorated branch office of Wall Street. VC partners…

McClure is a marketing guy. Yes, VC is a niche area of PE. But you don't overwrite 20 years of cultural influence from your main profession just like that.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#428
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain what I missed or misunderstood. I'm not trying to be contentious here.

Sure, no problem. > You are saying there is a chance a bad actor might abuse a social dynamic in which you are the less powerful participant? When the commenter said that, they were humorously turning the hypothetical BPD scenario on its head. The commenter was making a comparison to the original sexual harassment topic, where a bad actor (VC executive) abused a social dynamic (sexually harassing women founders) in w…

>The commenter was making a comparison to the original sexual harassment topic, where a bad actor (VC executive) abused a social dynamic (sexually harassing women founders) in which the aggrieved were the less powerful participant (needing to raise money to fund their businesses).

I don't understand how that's comparable when the bad actor in that situation isn't protected from scrutiny, while in my hypothetical, the bad actor is protected.

>The comment points out the parallels between your fear of men being taken advantage of by BPD-afflicted women, and the far more likely event of a male superior abusing power over a female subordinate.

I still think that the latter has some recourse in the contexts that we are discussing. The former has absolutely none. As social and power dynamics shift, what makes you think that my hypothetical is going to be less likely to occur than the VC one? Also, what makes you think that it will only be BPD women targeting men, and not other women as well?

>On another note, it seems like you have a strong personal experience with a woman diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I think that this traumatic experience has made you more sensitive to the risks of this happening to others. I understand how you must feel. I don't think the risk is as high or is as catastrophic in a business situation, if a company adheres to the law and conducts thorough investigations of personnel accusations.

Yes, I've actually been pretty obsessed with personality disorders and mental health in general after dating someone who is a BPD poster-child. I knew absolutely nothing about either before that, and I was like most people and just used broad labels like "crazy" or "weird" or "depressed" instead of looking deeper into it.

Learning about it all of the different personality disorders has helped explain a lot of things about why people act and think in certain ways. I honestly think that their prevalence is exceedingly high in American millennials working in tech. Something about our upbringings and lifestyles has resulted in what I would consider a mental health epidemic that most people don't want to acknowledge or discuss, let alone treat.

In regards to the risk not being catastrophic, I don't think that's fair. The odds of having a life-ruining experience with a BPD in a professional context are low, but you're not going to make it out in one piece.

Thanks for actually responding btw :)

It's a bit upsetting when other people drop some snarky comment, and then just downvote and stop replying when reproached.

I only have good intentions. I mainly just want people to know that BPD exists, and that it should be accounted for in some way. I think it's really dangerous to provide them with absolute power when it comes to making claims that don't require any sort of proof.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's important to distinguish that these aren't people who are necessarily assholes to everyone. They have plenty of friends and acquaintances who would never believe they'd do something like this. And others who upon hearing it, would've assumed it was a harmless misunderstanding. I think one of the larger problems that society is struggling with is the idea that two different people can be in very similar p…

How does their niceness in other situations matter?

It proves that "being able to get away with it" is significant factor.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Intellectual consistency would require acknowledging the systematic repression of women in western history (not being able to vote, etc), and thus, the effects of what is still a patriarchial culture as often as not. In other words, your argument attempts to ignore simple historical facts which you can verify easily on Wikipedia.

Where did I ignore that? I called their behavior reprehensible. I'm just saying that it's unlikely the behavior exists in a vacuum and that things are never as black and white as they're made out to be.

Historical oppression doesn't justify questionable behavior. I've seen many instances where women have "dated up" to help their careers. I even saw one instance where a female director dated the CTO and later the CFO to have someone to support her coke habit. Just calling out the men will never truly fix the problem. We need to be giving a consistent message to both sexes. These types of relationships (and expectations of relationships) are not acceptable under any circumstances. Because if it's wrong for men to pressure women but it's okay for women to pursue those men, then there can always be the hope in the back of the man's mind that maybe it's possible.

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