Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#221

Post by xor1 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:23 AM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #206

xor1 wrote: post #159

What are your thoughts on women with borderline personality disorder abusing an environment in which the burden of proof is placed entirely on the defendant?

I think building a policy based on the possible existence of a vanishingly small group of bad actors is a great way to make excuses for avoiding solving real problems...

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/border...

I don't consider 1.6% among the general population to be "vanishingly small". That's easily approaching and I think even exceeding 1/100 when you factor for women only, since the majority of BPD diagnoses are for women. This isn't really insignificant when you think about how many people you will run into during a typical career.

This also doesn't account for the large number of people who remain undiagnosed despite exhibiting significant traits. One of the primary traits of any personality disorder is the belief that there's nothing actually wrong with the symptoms and convincing oneself that they're beneficial. Getting treatment would mean admitting that there's something wrong with you and working towards fixing those issues. People with personality disorders prefer to change their environments to accommodate them instead of vice versa.

It only takes one of them to do devastating damage to a person, or even an entire company if the right person is targeted.

I also have nothing but my own anecdotal experiences for this, but I really think something about tech attracts people with traits associated with personality disorders at a higher rate than what's exhibited in the general population.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#222

Post by mintplant » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:24 AM UTC

rl3 wrote: post #7

This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be…

Huh. Who would've thought that allowing wealthy frat bro types* to run amok, wield power over others, and construct cults of personality would engender a culture of sexism and abuse?

(* I'm not, of course, attempting to excuse any who may not fit this profile.)

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#223

Post by notacoward » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:25 AM UTC

News flash: finance guys have predatory attitudes toward women.

OK, not news at all. VC is part of the finance industry. No, it's not "disruptive" or in opposition to that industry in any way. Just look at who's putting all that money in before it's doled back out to entrepreneurs. Look at who has the power to force someone like McClure out. Yep, just a differently decorated branch office of Wall Street.

VC partners hew to the norms of their own industry, not the industries they invest in. The finance industry is a notorious bastion of the old boys' club preying on everyone else, with much of the dirty work done by hyper-aggressive young bloods vying to be among the very few elevated into the inner circle as its older members die off. Of course VCs behave this way, just like TV/movie producers and all the other specialized branches of the finance industry. How could anyone have expected or believed otherwise?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#224

Post by haikuginger » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:26 AM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #168

dkarl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cringe is the wrong word. We cringe when we watch The Office and see people make social mistakes without meaning to. These are not unwitting social mistakes. This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Furthermore, not having met any of these people but speculating based on my experience, I would guess that their motivations go beyond just looking for sex and knowing that one ti…

I know many people like that, and no, they don't derive an enjoyable power trip out of being rejected at all. Theybdon't know they can get away with it. They don't know that they are doing it . These people are rarely evil and predatory. They usually genuinely believe that the behavior they are exhibiting is desireable. They think that this is how the game is played, and these things are a form of peacocking. They th…

> Theybdon't know they can get away with it. They don't know that they are doing it. These people are rarely evil and predatory. They usually genuinely believe that the behavior they are exhibiting is desireable.

At a certain point, one has to believe that another's actions are evil, even if that evil is unwitting. One mustn't actively choose to be "evil and predatory" to be so in fact.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#225

Post by tuna-piano » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:27 AM UTC

This type of behavior also takes place in the White House.

For those who haven't seen the current president's recent interaction with an Irish reporter, it made me say "yuck" out loud. I really feel bad for people, like this reporter, who may feel like they are valued more for their looks than their skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8wLx4WYbX4

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#226

Post by gizmo » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:29 AM UTC

smmsnsks wrote: post #193

Avoiding this situation is why I never meet women 1:1 outside of conference rooms, yet Mike Pence was roundly mocked for doing this.

Regardless of intent, this contributes to the problem.

A lot of mentoring and networking happens on a 1:1 basis, and if men refuse to meet women 1:1 in situations where they would meet with other men, then women will lose out on career opportunities.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#227

Post by graycat » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:29 AM UTC

consz wrote: post #135

graycat wrote: post #90

I'm a US, straight (the subject of the OP is men hitting on women, so, for me to give my experience as examples, it's important to note that I'm a straight male), US, native born, white (for my examples, it's likely also relevant to note that I'm in the majority of the people in the subject of the OP), male. From my first girlfriend to my (late) wife, I've always treated girls/women as angels. But in the work place,…

How interesting.

Why?

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#228

Post by tiredwired » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:30 AM UTC

Harassment goes both ways. I have worked in Silicon Valley for 8 years. I have heard women managers and even a CEO say and do inappropriate things. Not only did the woman CEO say horrible things about her employees, she was also a bad CEO.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#229

Post by stale2002 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:30 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #132

zzalpha wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, that statement is only false if these are false accusations. Are you saying they're false accusations?

My point holds as long as false accusations are possible. Women, like men, are not all angels. Sexism, or even patriarchy, has no gender.

False accusations are basically not possible though.

The people getting in trouble right now are not the borderline cases of someone saying an awkward comment here or there.

The people getting in trouble are the serial harassers who are so egregiously bad that a multitude of incidents are documented.

Your big standard subtle sexist or tech douche bro has nothing to worry about.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#230

Post by sillysaurus3 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 1:30 AM UTC

xor1 wrote: post #136

nickpsecurity wrote: post #68

"Because VCs are all populated by serial harassers who now realize they can't get away with this crap?" Because any of them that aren't used to avoiding all the risky behaviors, whether doing it intentionally (asking for dates) or unintentionally ("discriminatory language"), will now worry that they'll be hit with newspaper articles that can destroy their career. They'll be considered guilty until proven innocent by…

>So, this shit happens whenever the aggressive, scheming women (or men) see a way to get more for themselves at some seemingly-vulnerable man's (or woman's) expense. These are people with personality disorders (especially Borderline), who can thrive in environments where incessant lying, gaslighting, and life-ruining accusations are rewarded . The current system lets the people with the least morals float to the top,…

I've noticed people on HN never really want to discuss why people like the Uber CEO are sexist

I don't think it's fair to characterize Travis as sexist without backing it up with evidence. Travis isn't equal to Uber, and I respect him as an entrepreneur. (Maybe I missed an article claiming he was personally involved in some misconduct, though.)