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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#101

Post by rtpg »

khazhoux wrote: post #58
meredydd wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside, and not meant at you specifically, but: Next time you hear "a constant murmur" of harassment, racism, or other bad behaviour, _ believe it _. That constant murmur is the sound of a thousand stories like this that don't (yet) have the coordination to hit the pages of the NYT at the same time and become "credible". A month ago, there were dozens of female founders sitting on stories like this who were still afra…

> Next time you hear "a constant murmur" of harassment, racism, or other bad behaviour, _believe it_. Um, no? There's a constant murmur of racism in SV companies. I haven't seen that at all. In fact, the opposite. Doesn't mean there's no racism, but I'd rather have actual examples before I buy into that line. There's a constant murmur of ageism in tech companies. I haven't seen that either. Plenty of people over 40,…

because things happen outside your immediate circle? Like maybe you work at a better company than most?

For example, if on your team of 20 engineers you have 3 women, then your team is already above the national average.

It's for the same reason you can think there's systemic racism in the American policing system without thinking that your cousin is racist because they're a cop.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#102

Post by [deleted] »

boreas wrote: post #45
Apocryphon wrote: post #15

How is it that the old money industries of Wall Street and Hollywood, no vanguards of gender egalitarianism themselves, seem to have less flagrant sexual harassment issues? Do they keep them under wraps or are they just more mature by now?

One theory I've seen bounced around is that the more process and institution there is in an organization, the less opportunity there is for sexual harassment. When social interaction at the workplace is limited and formulaic, there's no leeway for someone to sexually harass colleagues. Thus staid megacorps have less of these problems than startups/tech companies. Whether this is true or not, I can't personally say, a…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#104

Post by nickpsecurity »

meowface wrote: post #92
nickpsecurity wrote: post #37

Good that they came out, many admitted to it, and some are gone. That's the good news. Still, one was extra weird and messed up that I had to at least look at both of them in how they presented themselves: Marc Cantor vs Wendy Dent. It was one of few where little info and no picture was available for the woman. It already presented his background plus him admitting he sent sexual and weird messages to her in response…

>Just kind of musing on a concern I've heard from a lot of people in and mostly outside that field just talking about rules where men can never hit on or anything close women who are professionals. Then why do couples often say they met at work? If you're an investor, meeting someone for the first or second time, and someone asks you for money, and you hit on them , you're an utter asshole and moron. Yes, even if som…

"Then why do couples often say they met at work?"

That's actually my argument. Many do. Anyone applying nothing personal on the job wouldn't achieve that since each would report on the other per policy of no advances. Yet, there's tons of couples that met on the job. So, clearly a lot of people disagreeing with that concept or seeking to limit it in some way with a lot of relationships that wouldn't have happened.

"If you already have a steady, mutual friendship (or other positive relationship) with someone you work with"

How do you do that if you can't show personal interest in them if they approached you professionally? Other articles have women complaining about that where they expect to only receive professional interactions with men they sent a professional statement or response to. Note that, as in my reply to cortesoft, this is a subset of women where others may be fine with it. I've met a lot of those where I just saw them do it in their actions. Or they did the flirting themselves from the get go based on the value of the man. The differing views by both men and women are always left out of these articles that present just one. So, I wanted to see if anyone had something to say about it. Seems they're all in one camp so far that probably matches publisher's.

"and you hit on them, you're an utter asshole and moron. Yes, even if someone was dressed in a way that exposed cleavage."

Going straight to hitting on them before trying to get a conversation or friendly chat would be stupid. I said I'd probably not do it. Never have so far. I play it safe just being professional or friendly until one shows interest in me.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#105

Post by taytus »

CydeWeys wrote: post #13

This is a watershed moment in the VC industry. The dam has finally burst, and we're now seeing the establishment of a new norm in which women who are being harassed go public rather than feeling compelled to hide it. Expect to see many men who were operating under the old norms getting ousted.

Chris Sacca on Medium http://imgur.com/a/BnI6n

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#106

Post by auganov »

"Apologies" like Chris Sacca's [0] don't make you too hopeful.

  Often I have committed as their first limited partner and encouraged them 
  to use my name and participation to attract other investment. I’ve 
  introduced them to my fund’s most loyal investors and made sure they have 
  had the opportunity to make their case rather than get lost in an inbox. 
  I’ve also connected them to our trusted service providers saving them the 
  time and frustration I experienced when trying to get my first fund off 
  the ground. Above all else, I’ve rolled up my sleeves and spent the time 
  mentoring many of them in how to approach the business itself and how to 
  navigate the inevitable challenges that arise.
Yea, that's what VCs do? Just apologize and take a bit of time to rethink stuff, nobody's going to be reassured by lame platitudes.

[0] https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca...

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#107

Post by cbhl »

austenallred wrote: post #18

I had always heard the constant murmur of sexual harassment happening in the Valley, but I was never sure if there was any merit to it. I anecdotally had never seen anything that would even come close to a situation like those described, so I kind of brushed it off. But then articles like these come out. Wow. These are some of the kingpins of Silicon Valley shown sexually harassing with hard, factual evidence. I had…

If you work at a tech-company, you might think, "oh, that happens at Uber, but not here".

It almost certainly does.

One of the easiest things men can do to help is collect those stories anonymously, curate them, and share them broadly. (For example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-23/at-google...) Women shouldn't have to bear the brunt of the burden of making the majority believe them.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#108

Post by theseatoms »

ronilan wrote: post #95
dkarl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cringe is the wrong word. We cringe when we watch The Office and see people make social mistakes without meaning to. These are not unwitting social mistakes. This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Furthermore, not having met any of these people but speculating based on my experience, I would guess that their motivations go beyond just looking for sex and knowing that one ti…

> This is people being assholes because they know they can get away with it. Nope. These people are being assholes because they ARE assholes. Never attribute to rational decision making what can be attributed to rotten character.

I mean... rotten characters can make rational decisions, to achieve their rotten ends.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#109

Post by goatcurious »

I remember coming across a 2011 article on similar behavior by a New York investor, where I could not figure out whether the writers were condoning the behavior, in an almost fawning tone, or highlighting a problem. http://observer.com/2011/11/charlie-odonnell-women-in-tech-d...

Just read it again, it is beyond cringeworthy.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#110

Post by horsecaptin »

xenity7 wrote: post #80
horsecaptin wrote: post #54

Something doesn't add up here. - Shouldn't the New York Times be reporting more often about sexual inequality on Wall Street? - Silicon Valley has fewer women. - Silicon Valley has the highest concentration of Scientific and Technical workers in the country - if you went to an American school, then you know where they stand in the hierarchy. Could it be that the lower number of women here is forcing the men to go out…

The technology industry is seen as progressive and cutting edge, therefore stories about sexism have more impact because they challenge a larger gap between perception and reality - "everyone knows" that finance is sexist. I'm not sure I completely understand the rest of your point, but I object to the idea that promoting women's rights is against the interest of men. Just society arguments aside, there is a basic ec…

Promoting and educating everyone of their rights is very important and essential to the function of a civil society.

You're absolutely right that tech gets the beatdown because it is new. It is much more difficult for people to complain about their conditions in older industries without finding themselves unable to find another job in the same industry.

The Tech industry, especially in Silicon Valley has the friendliest working environments. Why do news papers make it seem as if sexism is so rampant in the Valley? Why would a girl want to become an engineer if all she sees are stories about how badly women are treated in Silicon Valley?

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