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Denied Entry

daniel.haxx.se

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Re: Denied Entry

#31

Post by ceejayoz »

justboxing wrote: post #27
irq wrote: post #3

Was it really necessary for him to refer to his Twitter follower count so many times?

> Was it really necessary for him to refer to his Twitter follower count so many times? I was wondering about the same thing. Sounds like "Twitter Humblebrag" * to me.... > I’m now (end of Wednesday, 60 hours since the check-in counter) at 3000 more twitter followers than what I started out with this Monday morning. This turned out to be a totally crazy week and it has severally impacted my productivity. I need to ge…

If the creator of cURL wants to brag, I doubt it's going to be about his Twitter follower count.

Re: Denied Entry

#32

Post by PostOnce »

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #11

Something that I was curious about, and which others might also be: >Sorry, you’re not allowed entry to the US on your ESTA. "ESTA" stands for the Electronic System for Travel Authorization, and is a program administered by US Customs & Border Protection (part of the Department of Homeland Security). It's used by people in Visa Waiver countries to submit information about themselves & their travel plans, before they…

The whole point of the visa waiver program is to make travel frictionless, you just get on a plane and go -- and then here comes ESTA, wasting peoples time and money with fruitless bureaucracy again.

I wonder how many Swiss and Japanese terrorists have had their plots foiled due to the life-saving shield of ESTA.

How is this not a violation of whatever agreements all these other countries signed to let us in without any paperwork, and yet they have to file paperwork to get into the USA?

Maybe next we can quarantine all new arrivals for 72 hours in some kind of security camp, where they'll endure an arduous interview process to make sure they're safe -- run by highly qualified TSA geniuses.

Re: Denied Entry

#34

Post by Radim »

It's popular to poo on USA these days, but I had a similar experience with Canada.

I was about to present at NIPS (a ML conference in Vancouver) in 2010, but was denied visa (Czech citizen - EU). No reason given. Those pesky PhD computer scientists, we don't want them in our country, ruining our economies! :)

I also cursed a bit, but unlike the OP, didn't cry (WTF?). It's their country, their rules, their loss (I think).

Re: Denied Entry

#35

Post by Kostchei »

lucb1e wrote: post #20
prawn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

International conferences should be considering this also. I'm a plain white guy with nothing dramatic to hide and I was apprehensive on my recent visit to the US. I can imagine people working in tech security, or with backgrounds/family from particular countries, would be more nervous.

I work in tech security and indeed, I've thought about this topic and I'd be nervous as hell. Then again, needing to put my laptop in check-in luggage (with a backdoored lock? Is that really a thing? I only saw "TSA-approved locks" mentioned somewhere and am only inferring the existence of backdoored locks here) is a no-go in the first place, so I'd need to (1) want to go to the USA, (2) not take a laptop and (3) pro…

1. Don't take the laptop, preferably don't take a phone, unless you can factory wipe it before entering customs. If this is not an option, don't go. With 10 years in forensics/ more in IT and a good/careful eye to the legislation, I have made the sad decision I can't go. (various work conferences)

Re: Denied Entry

#36

Post by projectramo »

I think the reason for the denials is a change in the interpretation of the rules.

ESTA used to be for short term visits for any reason.

I think some people in CBP now interpret it to mean a short stay that is not "work" related.

You can look up all the academics -- which were definitely covered by ESTA -- who have had issues because some people at the border were not sure on how to interpret them.

They are not alone. Way back in 2007 or so (so before Trump, but after 9/11), I overheard a German visa officer tell an American that it was totally illegal for them to work if they just came as a visitor. He had to get a work visa and it was long and complicated.

He had made the mistake of telling her that he planned to hop over to visit some clients.

He then said something like "oh, ok, its not a work trip its just a vacation. Nevermind about the visa, good bye." and walked out.

I think someone interpreted the conference as "work", and that is what lead to all this.

I think they (whoever it is) should make it clear to the officers what the policy is, and I also think the policy should be that conferences and the like are covered by ESTA.

Re: Denied Entry

#37

Post by khedoros1 »

rhblake wrote: post #12
khedoros1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Several well-followed people retweeted me and that caused even more new followers and replies." "By the end of the Tuesday, I had about 2000 new followers and twitter notifications that literally were flying by at a high speed." "I’m now (end of Wednesday, 60 hours since the check-in counter) at 3000 more twitter followers than what I started out with this Monday morning." Two direct references to a count, one indir…

He's really just chronicling what happened while expressing astonishment at the traction the story got (and the consequences thereof).

Oh, I know it, and I'm sure I would've felt similar in his position. I just responded to the previous comment so that other people wouldn't have to go back to the article to see if they'd misread something, the way that I did.

Re: Denied Entry

#38

Post by YZF »

projectramo wrote: post #36

I think the reason for the denials is a change in the interpretation of the rules. ESTA used to be for short term visits for any reason. I think some people in CBP now interpret it to mean a short stay that is not "work" related. You can look up all the academics -- which were definitely covered by ESTA -- who have had issues because some people at the border were not sure on how to interpret them. They are not alone…

The boundary between "business" as covered by B-1 visas and "work" can be fuzzy. If you are employed by a US company and you get paid by said company while in the US (i.e. you're not on vacation) then your trip can be interpreted as working in the US. It's not clear which Mozilla entity is Daniel's employer but I've seen similar situations. Companies that have a lot of international employees traveling to the US typically know what sort of papers or preparations need to happen to reduce the chance of these things.

Another crazy example, if you own a house in the US but you're not permitted to work there, fixing your own house counts as work and could get you deported banned from entry. You have to hire someone else to fix it.

Borders are stupid... And the US has been this way basically for ever. If anything I think they got a little better vs. e.g. 10 or 20 years ago. I used to work for a Canadian company that did a lot of business in the US and there was some time period (~15 years ago) where any company employee attempting to travel to the US had a lot of difficulty because those guys got it into their heads that the company was doing something funny.

You can run into trouble in various other places in the world as well.

Re: Denied Entry

#39

Post by Radim »

Radim wrote: post #34

It's popular to poo on USA these days, but I had a similar experience with Canada. I was about to present at NIPS (a ML conference in Vancouver) in 2010, but was denied visa (Czech citizen - EU). No reason given. Those pesky PhD computer scientists, we don't want them in our country, ruining our economies! :) I also cursed a bit, but unlike the OP, didn't cry (WTF?). It's their country, their rules, their loss (I thi…

I wasn't the only one by the way, and NIPS moved away from Canada the following year.

Re: Denied Entry

#40

Post by _qbjt »

irq wrote: post #3

Was it really necessary for him to refer to his Twitter follower count so many times?

He's a programmer who probably spends a lot of time looking at data. It's an understandable frame of reference for someone trying to make sense of a stressful situation (especially when the media has brought attention to it).
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