Author of cURL denied entry to the USA • Hacker News Board

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#251

Post by asveikau » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 3:44 PM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #53

y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #40

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them l…

As someone who just filled out their DS-160 visa application and paid money for the application and now being left alone due to the new "travel ban" (wife and mother in law Iranian) I just say: let this country be alone for a while. I don't know when the US government (and the voters) will gain back consciousness and be part of the international community again in a positive way. Other countries are much more open ri…

> let this country be alone for a while

Please don't leave us alone with these people. We in the US need you more than ever.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#252

Post by aardshark » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 3:50 PM UTC

ubernostrum wrote: post #154

germanier wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what the web page says is exactly what the parent comment complained about. Saying "you are free to travel" and then, without notifying you, deny you boarding is not a nice thing to do (even if it happens for a very valid reason). It just shows the careless attitude of whoever designed that system.

You are saying: "But the webpage said this!" I am saying: "I agree with you that the webpage said this. The webpage should not say that, because that is not accurate or useful." In your pursuit of antagonizing someone who agreed with you, you have now devolved into trying to nitpick details of a program you clearly don't actually understand, so I'd suggest you just accept that when I said I agreed with you that the w…

Not accurate or useful would be an apt description of your comments here.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#253

Post by swat535 » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 4:07 PM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #53

y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #40

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them l…

As someone who just filled out their DS-160 visa application and paid money for the application and now being left alone due to the new "travel ban" (wife and mother in law Iranian) I just say: let this country be alone for a while. I don't know when the US government (and the voters) will gain back consciousness and be part of the international community again in a positive way. Other countries are much more open ri…

Fellow Canadian welcomes you here, more of you guy please! :)

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#254

Post by jackbravo » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #40

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them l…

US Conferences should be done in Mexico instead ;-). Maybe a beach like Cancun or Puerto Vallarta. Or a big city like Mexico City, Guadalajara or Monterrey.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#255

Post by mikestew » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

pricechild wrote: post #221

smoyer wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ... Trump lied to a bunch of disenfranchised blue-collar workers and added them to the patriotic isolationists. If you weren't part of that group but had previously voted republican, you probably wouldn't vote for Clinton either. My biggest hope is that this lasts only four years (or less) and that a) the two major parties come to their senses or b) we end up with more than two viable parties. For those of us in…

In your experience, has the leader of the political party opposing your beliefs always told the truth in the past?

In the past, there be at least some shred of truth in the politician’s otherwise untrue statement. So the worst one could say is, “okay, that’s not 100% correct”. Trump takes it to a new level in that there often isn’t the slightest bit of truth in what he says. IOW, other politicians stretch the truth, but mostly don’t outright lie. Trump‘s statements, OTOH, appear to often be completely unconcerned with facts.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#256

Post by ubernostrum » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 5:06 PM UTC

germanier wrote: post #185

ubernostrum wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, somehow eligibility was determined before ESTA existed. Now ESTA exists, and ESTA is the thing that determines eligibility. I do not see how this is relevant in any way, or even what it is you are trying to tell me I'm wrong about, because every time I tell you how the system works you go running off to some irrelevant other thing. Please either explain clearly what point you are trying to make, or stop.

This sounds like something Gogolian bureaucrats would say. "The purpose of filling out form A38 is to have form A38 filled out." Modern bureaucracy usually doesn't introduce requirements for the heck of it. Checking citizenship worked fine before the introduction of ESTA so "checking citizenship" was not the reason the system was introduced or is still in place. It does that as well but that is not the point of ESTA.…

The fact that the visa waiver program existed earlier has absolutely no relevance. Was there a way to check requirements prior to ESTA being created? Yes. But now, ESTA is the way requirements are checked for the visa waiver program. That is the purpose for which ESTA exists and for which it was created. That is ESTA's job. That is what ESTA does. ESTA is not some separate data-gathering or visa-issuing system; its sole and entire purpose for existing is to be the thing which, now -- and yes, once upon a time a system existed for this which was not ESTA, but that is not relevant because now ESTA is the thing which does this, because it is possible for one thing to replace another thing -- checks requirements for the visa waiver program.

So, hopefully you will finally, for the love of all that is holy, agree that ESTA is the thing which checks requirements for the visa waiver program. The visa waiver program is tied ultimately to one, exactly one, and only one thing: "Are you a citizen of a country designated as part of the Visa Waiver Program? (Yes/No)".

Everything else is secondary to that. Everything else is details. Everything else is bureaucratic requirements like checking how long it'll be until your passport expires or looking for red flags like not having a return ticket, and those things get checked on everybody, even people who are getting visas. Meanwhile, citizenship of a visa-waiver country is the sine qua non of the visa waiver program and thus is the sine qua non of ESTA "approval" since ESTA's sole purpose is to check the requirements of the visa waiver program.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#257

Post by Serubin » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #53

y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #40

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them l…

As someone who just filled out their DS-160 visa application and paid money for the application and now being left alone due to the new "travel ban" (wife and mother in law Iranian) I just say: let this country be alone for a while. I don't know when the US government (and the voters) will gain back consciousness and be part of the international community again in a positive way. Other countries are much more open ri…

As someone one who was born out of the US but has lived here for nearly all my life - it's all crazy. Although it may be unpopular, the government is starting to quietly and systematically turn against the majority voters. It's terrifying.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#258

Post by tbodt » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

HappyTypist wrote: post #152

rl3 wrote: post #27

There's a good chance that if automated software is at least partly responsible for this, that cURL was probably used somewhere in the intelligence pipeline. Rather ironic if that is the case.

I should make a low level utility and in the license prohibit governments from denying me entry.

That clause of the license probably wouldn't hold up in court though.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#259

Post by Veratyr » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

qume wrote: post #68

Just to balance the narrative here a bit, I have traveled into and out of the US many times per year for around 15 years with no problems on an ESTA. I only recently switched to a visa. After a long flight having to deal with the delay and hassle of immigration seems much worse than it is. I really hate it, and the comments here suggest others do too, but if you look at what we have to deal with objectively it's not…

> but when it comes down to it I think CBP are far more reasonable than they are given credit for because of the crappy environment it happens in

I don't think this is true. The circumstances/environment are the same but compare entering America to entering any other country.

No country but America has ever fingerprinted me, searched my luggage, detained me in a small room with no explanation for 3 hours, forced the departing airport to search me again after security (on 3 separate but consecutive flights to the US, months apart) or made me spend more than ~10 minutes in a line waiting to get through security or immigration. America has done all of these things.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#260

Post by humanrebar » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

splawn wrote: post #249

humanrebar wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand that people from the countryside can be seen as kinder towards people they like but my impression is that hatred and prejudice is much more prevalent there... That's not my experience at all. I dealt with more overt racism in NYC than any tiny red state town, and I've spent plenty of time in both. There are racist people everywhere, but even in rural areas, they tend to be ignorant and antisocial so th…

The GOP continues to be impregnated with racism thanks to the southern strategy.[0] If you don't think out in the open racist culture is alive, well and considered normal in the rural south, you are fooling yourself. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

I think there are overt racists, but they are in a minority and certainly not exclusive to any political party.

Though this is a hard conversation to have meaningfully since different people mean different things by racism. The context here is a Northern European visiting the U.S. I think it would be a bit of a stretch to say they'll have a hard time in the rural south. I'd say (accented) rural Southerners would have a harder time in NYC than Scandanavian visitors would have in Mobile.