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California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

reuters.com

81–90 of 190 posts

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#81
post #70

I switched from using RoundUp to a vinegar/salt/dish soap solution this summer and can't believe how well it works. It seems to be just as effective as RoundUp.

Depending on the vinegar/soap it may contain alcohol which is known carcinogen where glyphosates are a suspected carcinogen. On toxicity, acetic acid in vinegar is pretty high and associated with things like osteoporosis which has been seen in people who consume apple cider vinegar on a daily basis. Along the same lines LD50 of glyphosates is 10,000mg/kg where acetic acid in vinegar is fatal at 3000mg/kg.

LD50 and carcinogenesis have very little to do with each other.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#82
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawsuits. Giving lawyers something else to sue about.

Except it was the citizens who explicitly and separately vote for this one, and explicitly chose to allow suing over it. They tried to do the same thing with GMO labeling, which would have had an identical result (lawsuits and everything being labeled GMO no matter whether it was or not) Thankfully, it lost the vote.

Who are 'they,' exactly? Lawyers are citizens too, and more than capable of employing PR agencies and lobby groups. It's not like propositions just pop out of the collective will of the citizenry; being voted on and confirmed by a majority is just the last step after some lobby group has already successfully waged a publicity campaign.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#83

I switched from using RoundUp to a vinegar/salt/dish soap solution this summer and can't believe how well it works. It seems to be just as effective as RoundUp.

Keep in mind that salt accumulates in the soil. Eventually, if you use too much, you can end up with soil that's too high in salt for plants to trive, and the only option is scoop it all out with an excavator and replace it. Of course, that's the extreme scenario and not super likely unless your concentrations are high.

Vinegar is less of an issue if you monitor soil acidity; and you can always compensate with lime (our soils here in the South East are naturally acidic so we often have to ammend them).

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#84

Last time roundup came up here I made the claim that it killed my dad (healthy guy, came from a healthy long lived family, he died about 15-20 years sooner than his relatives from the cancer that is associated with roundup, you can google "non-hodgkin's lymphoma roundup" and you'll see a zillion lawyers wanting to talk to you about it). Yet hackernews people shouted me down saying that it wasn't possible. I'm not an…

There's very little epidemiological evidence to suggest glyphosate is a human carcinogen. Millions of people are exposed to it, some in significant amounts on work sites. If there's any correlation between heavy occupational exposure to glyphosate and human cancer, it's very weak.

Similarly: there's not a lot of first-principles logic to carcinogenicity of glyphosate. It's active in a metabolic pathway that animals don't have.

Finally, there's a lot of fuzz around glyphosate that would lead us to be skeptical of its danger. In particular: glyphosate is most closely associated with genetic modification and Monsanto (part of the appeal of glyphosate is that you can genetically engineer plants that resist it). But glyphosate itself is not a product of genetic engineering!

It's not impossible that glyphosate is a human carcinogen! But it's not impossible that a lot of things are carcinogens. To be intellectually consistent about the precautionary response to glyphosate, you're going to have to get rid of a whole lot of other features of modern life as well.

Acrylamide, which is produced in basically all human dry-heat cooking, is a known human carcinogen. The science behind the risks of acrylamide is, relative to that surrounding glyphosate, very solid. But we're never going to "ban" acrylamide, or, realistically, do anything to mitigate our exposure to it.

In that light, it seems reasonable to push back on public policy interventions for a useful chemical that has, based on current evidence, much less risk than "almost all cooked food".

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#85
post #42
post #5

RoundUp - Kills Humans not the lawn

can you point to a single case where that is true ? Doubt it.

agrochemicals are a leading method for suicide worldwide, although not so much in EU or US.

glyphosate is much safer than other agrochemicals, but Roundup contains more than just glyphosate.

People have died after drinking Roundup.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was just one example of how everything is labeled a carcinogen there.

Alcohol is a poor choice if you are trying to illustrate over labeling, because alcohol, especially heavy consumption of spirits, has some notoriety as a cause of oral cancer. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cancer-of-the-mouth/Pages/Cause...

Dosage is important in factoring risk. Problem with prop 65 it doesn't factor in risk at all. Potassium-40 produces ionizing radiation and is present with all sources of potassium. That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat Bananas.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you putting it on? Does it kill everything or just the subset that you want? What's the mixture ratios? If it worked on scotch broom I'd be forever grateful. Thanks!

It definitely kills grass. I use it for both grass and weeds outside of the lawn. The recipe is from Pinterest of course but it's: 1 gallon white vinegar (the kind we bought is 5% acidity) 1 cup table salt 1 tbsp Dawn dish soap Mix and pour into a spray bottle. I'm not sure about scotch broom - reading says it's more effective on small weeds, but that it kills whatever it contacts. I think the salt is damaging to the…

"I think the salt is damaging to the soil, so don't spray it if you plan to grow something else."

"Salt the Earth" is an established phrase in the English lexicon for a reason. The cancer-causing-ness of this mixture vs. Roundup may be in dispute, but this is certainly going to have a longer term effect than spraying Roundup, especially if you repeatedly apply it in the same place.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#88

California thinks EVERYTHING is cancer causing. I took my kids to Disneyland last year and right after the security screen there was a Prop 65 sign saying (roughly) that "Disneyland contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer". How is that helpful at all?

i live in California and i endorse your message. prop 65 warnings have become practically meaningless to me.

those warnings are almost everywhere. the average Californian could not carry out their daily routine if they refused to enter any buildings that had Prop 65 warning signs.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#89
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the vinegar/soap it may contain alcohol which is known carcinogen where glyphosates are a suspected carcinogen. On toxicity, acetic acid in vinegar is pretty high and associated with things like osteoporosis which has been seen in people who consume apple cider vinegar on a daily basis. Along the same lines LD50 of glyphosates is 10,000mg/kg where acetic acid in vinegar is fatal at 3000mg/kg.

LD50 and carcinogenesis have very little to do with each other.

Both are related to mortality.
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