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Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

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Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#161

Post by zimpenfish »

humanrebar wrote: post #156
zimpenfish wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this too shall pass. Probably not for several generations if the GOP get to stuff SCOTUS (which is looking increasingly likely with Kennedy's rumoured retirement and the age of the existing Dems on there.) [Edit to correctly reference Kennedy instead of Roberts]

Do you mean Kennedy? Or do you have any sources on the Roberts rumor? That's not something I have heard.

You are correct - I meant Kennedy. My apologies - I was reading something that included both of them immediately before commenting and my brain conflated the two.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#162

Post by geff82 »

geff82 wrote: post #53
y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #40

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them l…

As someone who just filled out their DS-160 visa application and paid money for the application and now being left alone due to the new "travel ban" (wife and mother in law Iranian) I just say: let this country be alone for a while. I don't know when the US government (and the voters) will gain back consciousness and be part of the international community again in a positive way. Other countries are much more open ri…

I say those words as probably the biggest USA-fanboy one could imagine, the guy who defended almost any obscure US policy. But right now, I can not do this any more. I can live with the liberals, I can live with the conservatives, but I can not live with aggressive political stupidness.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#163

Post by qume »

tgragnato wrote: post #137
qume wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can generalize this to Windows powershell. And no that does not have anything to do with ejecting Microsoft from the US. Microsoft isn't a private foreign individual using a privileged entry mechanism in the US that given any reason whatsoever can be revoked in favour of a perfectly functional visa process that most countries have to use. ESTA is only available to a few countries, and not all people in those…

No one should be held responsible for a fact that causes damage without direct involvement. The legal system uses `iuris personae` and limited liability precisely for this. Distinguishing a natural person from a legal person in this case is contrary to the purpose of the laws in force. Each tool can be used for good and for evil: risk management is primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent, uncertain l…

He wasn't denied entry into the US. He was denied access to a fast track system for entry into the US, so he has to use the slow, annoying, more methodical way.

It certainly sucks, but your summary of the US legal system is irrelevant.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#164

Post by humanrebar »

op00to wrote: post #144

We didn't elect Donald Trump. He was installed by the Russian government.

Russia seems to have influenced the American voter. But non-American-citizen HN commenters weren't exactly refraining from commenting on the election out of a desire for electoral purity. Granted, the Russian approach was especially scummy, but it was American who voted for Trump at the end of the day. And for better or worse foreign speech will influence the American voter at times.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#165

Post by qume »

jorvi wrote: post #132
qume wrote: post #68

Just to balance the narrative here a bit, I have traveled into and out of the US many times per year for around 15 years with no problems on an ESTA. I only recently switched to a visa. After a long flight having to deal with the delay and hassle of immigration seems much worse than it is. I really hate it, and the comments here suggest others do too, but if you look at what we have to deal with objectively it's not…

> If you were calmly asked the same questions by a sweet guy or girl on a chaise longue while being offered champagne and strawberries, people would have almost no problem even though it's really the same thing without the elevated stress level. Cute girl offers glass of champagne and complimentary strawberry 'so.. I'm gonna need you to unlock your phone, give me the password to your work-related e-mail, your persona…

I travel into the US constantly, as do many people I know, and I have never in person come across a single person this has happened to.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it's easy to blow this stuff out of proportion.

That's what I'm trying to do here - offer the view of someone who does this every few months for nearly two decades.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#166

Post by germanier »

ubernostrum wrote: post #151
germanier wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Visa Waiver Program was in place before ESTA was introduced. Before that, the airline took a look at your passport and then a list of allowed nationalities. Having the traveller fill out an online form does not change this requirement.

ESTA is the system which determines eligibility for the Visa Waiver Program. That is the sole and entire purpose of ESTA. That is why ESTA was created. Your comment that VWP existed earlier is not a disproof of this and has zero relevance. As such, your mention of that gives an extremely strong indication that you do not in fact understand what it is you are arguing about. ESTA's purpose is to determine eligibility f…

I feel like I am repeating myself. When ESTA was introduced, only a single requirement was added: "You need to fill out that online form". Somehow, the eligibility was determined before it was introduced. The things you list (nationality, passport validity, ...) are all easily checked before boarding by airlines. This happens everywhere in the world, for all kinds of destinations. An online form is not a reliable way to determine your citizenship anyway.

You seem to be unaware that even if you fulfil the formal requirements, ESTA applications can and are being denied by the system (and are sometimes checked by hand which can take a few days). This can have all kinds of reasons. I know at least two persons that were denied their ESTA even though they ticked off all the requirements. Both later got a B1/B2 visa without any trouble.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#167

Post by pas »

mclightning wrote: post #153
jagermo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your sentiment and the reaction. But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA. They should feel wrong why they force it onto others but enjoy the freedom to travel easily. Otherwise nothing will change. It's easy to start a "oh, they do it to us, let's annoy them even more" spiral…

> "US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA." They have been seeing it all this time, yet this is what you get.

Change takes time. It's a complex problem deeply rooted in fear, mongered by people who now successfully occupied the White House.

In the mean time, I agree, probably a simpler yet more aggressive tit-for-tat approach would be more fruitful.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#168

Post by humanrebar »

coldtea wrote: post #123
y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #40

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them l…

> This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... On the other hand if you have[1] the "good life", you might want to legitimately reduce access to it to those outside[2], especially if you view the outside world as some kind of second rate was…

The anti immigrant voter in the US doesn't have a good life or amazing career prospects. Or at least that voter is concerned about Americans in that situation. Concern over importing more unskilled labor is at least superficially valid, in my opinion. This plays into your third point.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#169

Post by alkonaut »

theboywho wrote: post #100

People suggesting to move conferences to other countries like France or Germany are wrong: you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future. The US wasn't and your country is also only 1-government away from being one. What we probably need is a new form of portable conferences where the location doesn't matter and/or is flexible and/or regime-proof. We should stop…

Umm just have the conference in a place that has a good climate for travel now. It's not like someone is arguing to have the conference in France because they will be a friendly democracy forever. Just now.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#170

Post by qume »

MatthewWilkes wrote: post #13
TekMol wrote: post #4

My feeling is that I read stories like these pretty often. That somebody was denied entry or arrested or humiliated while entering the USA. Is this because it happens more often in the USA then in other countries? Or is there some kind of reporting bias at play?

It's not just the US, this one last year was big news: https://medium.com/@rachelnabors/wtfuk-73009d5623b4 I suspect there are a few confounding factors. Firstly, lots of non-residents travel to tech conferences in the US. This gives them a wider pool of people to reject. My personal experience is that US-Americans are underrepresented at conferences in other places. They're by no means absent, but it feels off to me…

>Of my colleagues who travel a lot I don't know anyone who's had trouble at a border other than the US

Also my experience. In a massive country like the US it's easy to get irate about individual cases like this but also important to acknowledge that in general it works pretty well. I know of more cases in other countries of this happening (including to myself) than the US.

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