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Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

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Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#151

Post by ubernostrum »

germanier wrote: post #142
ubernostrum wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizenship is the primary determinant of ESTA, because ESTA is the feeder of the Visa Waiver Program which in turn is based entirely on citizenship. Everything else in ESTA is largely just duplicating requirements that would be imposed without ESTA (such as remaining validity of passport, whether you have a return ticket, purpose of visit, etc.).

The Visa Waiver Program was in place before ESTA was introduced. Before that, the airline took a look at your passport and then a list of allowed nationalities. Having the traveller fill out an online form does not change this requirement.

ESTA is the system which determines eligibility for the Visa Waiver Program. That is the sole and entire purpose of ESTA. That is why ESTA was created. Your comment that VWP existed earlier is not a disproof of this and has zero relevance. As such, your mention of that gives an extremely strong indication that you do not in fact understand what it is you are arguing about.

ESTA's purpose is to determine eligibility for VWP. VWP is based on citizenship of a participating country.

All other things asked for and evaluated by ESTA are things which any traveler, entering via any legal means, can and usually will also be evaluated on. For example, ESTA will usually verify that you have a passport which is valid for at least six months beyond your scheduled date of departure from the United States. This is not a unique requirement that ESTA, only ESTA, and nothing else anywhere other than ESTA imposes. A minimum amount of remaining passport validity is an incredibly common requirements, not just of the United States but of practically every country in the world.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#152

Post by HappyTypist »

rl3 wrote: post #27

There's a good chance that if automated software is at least partly responsible for this, that cURL was probably used somewhere in the intelligence pipeline. Rather ironic if that is the case.

I should make a low level utility and in the license prohibit governments from denying me entry.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#153

Post by mclightning »

jagermo wrote: post #119
GreaterFool wrote: post #63

Recently EU parliament voted to introduce visas for US citizens due to unequal treatment of EU countries. "About f ing time", I though. Few months pass and I read that EU Commission will do nothing*. I hate those bureaucrats in the EU. EU should retaliate (not of malice, just to force equal treatment). It's not a visa waiver if you can be denied entry so easily, as many people are. And of course not all EU countries…

I understand your sentiment and the reaction. But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA. They should feel wrong why they force it onto others but enjoy the freedom to travel easily. Otherwise nothing will change. It's easy to start a "oh, they do it to us, let's annoy them even more" spiral…

> "US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA."

They have been seeing it all this time, yet this is what you get.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#154

Post by ubernostrum »

germanier wrote: post #131
ubernostrum wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not disagreeing that the web page says that. But what it says is terrible inaccurate wording. ESTA simply determines whether you're someone who is, in general, eligible for visa-free travel (which is primarily determined by your country of citizenship -- everything else involved in ESTA is secondary to that). It doesn't grant a visa or guarantee anything about being allowed in. Australia uses an almost-identical…

But what the web page says is exactly what the parent comment complained about. Saying "you are free to travel" and then, without notifying you, deny you boarding is not a nice thing to do (even if it happens for a very valid reason). It just shows the careless attitude of whoever designed that system.

You are saying: "But the webpage said this!"

I am saying: "I agree with you that the webpage said this. The webpage should not say that, because that is not accurate or useful."

In your pursuit of antagonizing someone who agreed with you, you have now devolved into trying to nitpick details of a program you clearly don't actually understand, so I'd suggest you just accept that when I said I agreed with you that the wording was bad I did in fact mean it, and stop now.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#155

Post by dx034 »

iamtew wrote: post #61
Taniwha wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but when you apply for an ESTA you get told you've been 'approved' - you use this as a basis for booking a flight and travelling, if they're going to take it back without telling you (they have your email address) that really sucks, kind of passive aggressive

They don't seem to do the check when you apply. Years ago I fat-fingered my passport number, the ESTA went through fine, but I was refused at the airport due to my typo. I had to make a new one on the spot, was no problem, but it seems that they will just approve the ESTA when applying for it, and then later refuse you if they want.

They sometimes check. My last two ESTA renewals took 1 day because of some manual checks. Went through in the end. Know others who had the same experience so I guess they are performing some background checks.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#156

Post by humanrebar »

zimpenfish wrote: post #114
timr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small percentage of Americans wants to do this. Most Americans are indifferent (as in most countries), but the reactionary party has won the day, and a total lunatic is in the White House. Sadly. But this too shall pass. Not that I disagree with your conclusion: I hope conference organizers (and other groups) do start focusing abroad. The only thing that the GOP reliably responds to is the interests of money. Start…

> But this too shall pass. Probably not for several generations if the GOP get to stuff SCOTUS (which is looking increasingly likely with Kennedy's rumoured retirement and the age of the existing Dems on there.) [Edit to correctly reference Kennedy instead of Roberts]

Do you mean Kennedy? Or do you have any sources on the Roberts rumor? That's not something I have heard.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#157

Post by svantana »

op00to wrote: post #143

Please don't say "Americans" don't want foreigners on our soil. A minority of Americans allowed a hostile foreign government to manipulate our election process to raise a corrupt, compromised bigot to power. Most Americans want our country to be open and free. Painting every American this way does nothing to recognize the misery of this situation.

Well things were not much better under Obama. In the last ten years, I've had European friends denied entry, or even detained for hours on end, for the most innocuous of reasons. And regardless of what "most Americans" want, they clearly don't want it enough to make it a mainstream political issue.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#158

Post by dx034 »

ubernostrum wrote: post #125
germanier wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally tells you > Your travel authorization has been approved and you are authorized to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program. It then goes on to say (but this is the same for visas as well): > This does not guarantee admission to the United States; a Customs and Border protection (CBP) officer at a port of entry will have the final determination.

I'm not disagreeing that the web page says that. But what it says is terrible inaccurate wording. ESTA simply determines whether you're someone who is, in general, eligible for visa-free travel (which is primarily determined by your country of citizenship -- everything else involved in ESTA is secondary to that). It doesn't grant a visa or guarantee anything about being allowed in. Australia uses an almost-identical…

An ESTA can be denied and there are checks in place. The approval process can sometimes take a day or more. So it's not just checking if you are eligible, they also determine if they assume that you would be granted entry to the country. Since it's valid for 2 years there can obviously be changes after you've been granted the ESTA.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#160

Post by [deleted] »

jagermo wrote: post #119
GreaterFool wrote: post #63

Recently EU parliament voted to introduce visas for US citizens due to unequal treatment of EU countries. "About f ing time", I though. Few months pass and I read that EU Commission will do nothing*. I hate those bureaucrats in the EU. EU should retaliate (not of malice, just to force equal treatment). It's not a visa waiver if you can be denied entry so easily, as many people are. And of course not all EU countries…

I understand your sentiment and the reaction. But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA. They should feel wrong why they force it onto others but enjoy the freedom to travel easily. Otherwise nothing will change. It's easy to start a "oh, they do it to us, let's annoy them even more" spiral…

[deleted]
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