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The slow death of the electric guitar

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Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#281
post #82

Gibson and Fender are like the companies that sell exercise equipment: lots of people buy one with the best of intentions, and three to six months later it's collecting dust in the basement. It's not hard to see why. Playing music is hard. The ratio of effort to reward is just terrible. I totally understand why people quit.

> It's not hard to see why. Playing music is hard. The ratio of effort to reward is just terrible. I totally understand why people quit. Several years ago I worked for Fender on their in-house web development team in the marketing department; it was hell during the holiday turnaround, but there were good times, too. I was one of the few people there who didn't play an instrument. For myself, while I have always wante…

You should try lighter gauge strings on your electric, and maybe lower the action (the distance between the strings and the frets). I generally find electric guitars much easier on my fingers than acoustics.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#282

I've been saying this for a couple of years now. None of the music I listen to anymore features an electric guitar; it's all made on laptop computers. The fun part about knowing how to play guitar is that you can learn how to play your favorite songs. But if none of your favorite songs feature an electric guitar, what fun is it anymore? I'm 30 years old and have been playing the guitar since I was 12, but it's just n…

I give you Daft Punk with Nile Rodgers as a counter example.

lol, I did learn that song on guitar when it came out! But the majority of the songs I listen to now no longer feature a guitar part to learn.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#283
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Technologically the instrument ran its course. While the tech was still innovative in the 90s with the new digital effects, it hasn't changed much in 20 years. This is... whilst not exactly incorrect, it's not the whole truth either. The article touched a little bit on this with the robotic tuner thing, but didn't fully explain why. In my experience partaking in internet guitar forums over the decades, the vast…

>Maybe these old people in the article (I'm 37 so I'm one of them as well, I guess) are the problem, and when younger people that don't revere the word "vintage" so much can usher in the era of the truly modern guitar that Ned Steinberger has shown us glimpses of? One can only hope. It's already happening. A huge proportion of young guitarists are playing metal, which is a hugely progressive scene in terms of technol…

Thank for the discovery of Covet And Rob Scallon

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's a real PART. It's kind of like the Jay Graydon solo in Steely Dan's 'Peg'. Yes, you can have a bunch of exciting notes doing things, but it can't be just any bunch of notes: fast or slow, content matters.

Absolutely, content matters, and so does context. Take the solo in Living Colour's "Cult of Personality", a gibberish mess of seemingly random notes; he abuses that instrument like it owes him a lot of money! It works perfectly in the song however, so I suppose it's all a matter of taste. p.s. Aja is an absolute classic :)

Here's the problem with talking about guitar solos, especially saying, "I hate guitar solos, in the general case": Everyone immediately thinks of their favorite guitar solo, and gets defensive.

How am I supposed to argue against a Vernon Reid solo? Vernon Reid is a brilliant musician. I've loved his playing since I was a kid. He was one of my earliest musical heroes, and unlike a lot of musicians I liked when I was a kid, his playing (and the music of Living Colour) holds up extremely well to adulthood listening, even as someone that's got years of musical training since the first time I heard it and loved it. I might even enjoy some of their songs more today because I understand the depth of it.

If we could have the geniuses without the wankers, I'd have a lot less disdain for guitar solos (though even the Vernon Reids of the world usually have a few pointless rambling solos on record out there). But, we don't. Every wanker who ever picked up a guitar has shared their gifts with anyone who'd listen...sometimes, the world has been unlucky enough for it to have been recorded and somehow become a hit, and now we all have to hear that goddamned Freebird solo every now and then, no matter how hard we might try to avoid it.

Wankers outnumber geniuses by orders of magnitude. The sheer weight of guitar solo mediocrity in this world is staggering.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As fragmented as the music world is now, there is still capacity for a groundswell movement I believe. In keeping with the 'guitar sales are dying' theme - back in the 80's Fender Jazzmasters, Jaguars and Mustangs were pariah guitars. They were nothing more than the oddly shaped relics from the 'surf music' craze of the 50's and 60's. Then Kurt Cobain played one on stage in the 90's. And not played like a guitar god…

And back in the late 80s when Les Paul sales were flagging, out stepped a young Slash. And Gibson sales took off for another two decades and a half.

Even though Slash wasn't playing a Les Paul then (it was a LP copy)!

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#286

Naive question: Do these various electric guitar models (Gibson, Fender, etc) actually sound distinctive? Or is it all about brand cachet?

There are distinct sound differences, although they may be less obvious to a layman, the same way functional programming vs OOP would just "look like code" to someone who was not a developer. For example, Fenders, especially models like the Telecaster, have a "twangier", more treble-forward tone (they're used a lot in country music), where as a Gibson model, say the SG, would have a "meatier" more bass-forward tone a…

Another big difference is the scale length between a Fender and Gibson (the length of playable string between the nut and where the string contacts the bridge saddle).

On a Fender Telecaster, Stratocaster, or Jazzmaster, it's longer than on, say, a Gibson Les Paul or ES-335. This means there's more string tension and "snap" on those Fenders, which some players prefer. J Mascis of Dinosaur Jr (who plays a Fender Jazzmaster) says, "I like to be at war with the guitar." It also makes the guitar a little harder to play and a bit less forgiving when you make a mistake.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#287
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Send me names, I'd gladly feed my ears with beyond jazz subtleties. I'm all for the musical experience, as long as it's well done. But to the point, the thread is about mainstream guitar playing going away. So I was talking about mainstream electro. Surely there are deeply satisfying electronic music out there if you dig.

Made a selection with an eclectic variety of modern electronic sounds, enjoy! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnXVIsMimHY (a gem of prog trance) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyORieDhpkg (dark electronic jazz) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rk1K5Mmnbg (black metal + breakbeat + classical) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2GDEKCIVTE (amazing psy chill album) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQKsuZ5a3_U To…

[deleted]

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This made you a much better player than just looking up a video or tab though." I disagree. Not about the "just looking up a tab" bit, but about the general gist of your argument that "the hard way teaches you better". Easier access to knowledge is always better when you want to learn things, and the internet is absolutely the best access to knowledge that has ever existed. I've been playing guitar since long before…

I partly disagree. Access to endless information is great, on balance, but other things are equally important: hands-on tuition, peer feedback, competition. I think about folks like Lorde; she was writing fully formed, mature, and extremely competent, music at a ridiculously young age. I doubt it could have happened without tech. Kate Bush was 19 when she released Wuthering Heights (and had been writing for years bef…

"Kate Bush was 19 when she released Wuthering Heights (and had been writing for years before that)."

I've been comparing Lorde to Kate Bush for ages now, so I agree with you on that comparison (and I'm a huge Stevie Wonder fan, including his childhood songs..."Up Tight", recorded when he was 15, is among my favorites to holler along with while cooking dinner). But...there's gonna be a lot more of those kids. I'd bet there already are and I just don't follow pop music.

I can name maybe a half dozen super-talented kids that have come along in the pre-internet age; they were exceptional. But, I think they'll be less the exception as time goes on...partly due to tech.

YouTube recommended Grace Vanderwaal to me just last night. Her music isn't really my thing, but it's hard to argue she's not stunningly skilled for her age.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#289
The article mentions Guitar Center's $1.6 billion debt, but doesn't say why it has so much. The instrument market is flat, and online is taking a bite, but all of that debt is from a leveraged buyout by Bain Capital.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#290
It's not as if there haven't been many forms of the "Rock Is Dead" rant for decades now. For instance, see producer (cough "engineer" cough) Steve Albini's diatribe on the subject from back in the early '90s, "The Problem With Music":

http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

Rock music has become more niche as the recording industry has moved away from the old model of AOR and LPs, where there would be a few good singles on a record at best, to the new model that streaming music has enabled with songs standing on their own merits, and the financial model that necessitates touring and live music.

It seems as if the downward pressure on guitar sales is a money and business problem, not a music problem. There's simply a glut of gear on the market. Reverb and eBay have made it a simple matter to pick up a quality used electric guitar.

Confession: I've been playing since I was 16 years old, and I didn't buy a new guitar (an acoustic) until I was over 30 years old. There was no need to. I could get whatever kind of guitar I could afford, at the price I wanted to pay, in excellent condition on the used market. And I still can. It made no sense for me to buy new. And it makes even less sense when it comes to amps. I know places where you can find a huge variety of amps in good to new condition.

The downward pressure is increasing now as the baby boom generation is retiring or passing on, and a lot of those guys who are still around are thinning out their collection which means many quite nice, well-cared-for instruments are coming onto the market all the time.

Richard Ash says: "Our customers are getting older, and they’re going to be gone soon." Baby boomer guitarists tend to have a lot of disposable income. They're far more likely to cruise right into a GC or Sam Ash store and make a GAS-induced impulse purchase of an additional guitar. But that doesn't change the fact that a lot of musicians don't have a lot of dough, and they're surfing eBay for deals.

Parallel to this phenomenon, the amount of information that buyers have at their fingertips, via the internet, has never been more abundant. Guitarists know more about the instruments than they did in the past. They know what woods, frets, necks, bodies, pickups, and electronics do and will work, and in what combinations they will be optimized. See the "partscaster" hobbyist trend.

After all, an electric guitar is essentially a plank of wood with a bolt-on neck and simple electronics and hardware. If you have one you like, and chances are you do if you're a musician who plays a lot, there's no urgent reason to let it go. If you love how it sounds, you just keep playing it.

On top of all that, there's additional downward pressure coming from the low end of the market, and the improvement in quality of guitars from Mexico and China. Just look at all the love for the Fender Squier line and instruments such as the Classic Vibe Telecaster.

To sum up, I'm not worried about electric guitar music. Rock music has been in a bad place before. In fact, there's been more than one dark age. It's cyclical. If you're a music history buff, you'll know the significance of this date: February 3rd, 1959. It was called "The Day the Music Died" for a reason. Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, the Big Bopper—gone. Elvis was in the Army. Little Richard had quit. Jerry Lee Lewis was in career trouble because he married his cousin. Rock 'N' Roll seemed like it was over in the early 1960's—as if it had all been a novelty from the start. The charts were swamped by sweater singers and crooners. The rough, raw, and electrifying music of the late 50's looked like it was gone forever.

Then the Beatles, the Stones, the Kinks, the Who, the Yardbirds, the Animals, and all the other British Invasion groups re-invigorated the genre.

The same thing happened, to a lesser extent, with punk rock, and then grunge.

So I'm not worried about rock music. It's not dead. You can find it if you know where to look.

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