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Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

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Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#41
post #37

Wouldn't we all love a breakdown on how someone spends that kind of money. So far the game is solid. But I wonder if someone had their eyes on another WOW killer.

Is being a "WOW killer" worth it anymore? Activision doesn't even release the subscription numbers anymore (most likely because they've fallen so much since WotLK).

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to qualify that? I'm not following this at all, but I can't see anything particularly obvious that's a 'train wreck'. They have a game. It's playable, if not particularly good. Some people are playing it (or something? Someone is posting gameplay videos anyway). I have zero investment in it so I don't really get it; I see a lot of unhappy people making :( faces. Games take time and money to make. They're making…

The drama basically arises from where common people are a good source of funds but actually terrible investors, giving personal money by impulse, usually without being equipped with the industry insight to evaluate the risks, or fully accepting there are risks because they are too emotionally invested in the product.

Maybe so, but it's probably important not to enact regulations preventing people from doing this. Otherwise we'll lose all the things that Kickstarter et al. helped create.

Anyone who's loved the game Undertale will tell you that was a fine use of their funds. But games like that wouldn't be possible without unsophisticated investors throwing their money at it in small quantities.

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#43

Not very surprised, the game has been a trainwreck in the making from the beginning. Total scope was just way too overambitious, and people weren't going to plow hundreds and thousands of dollars into spaceship jpegs forever.

Why is it the hip and cool thing to call the entire project a train wreck without any actual supporting evidence?

Half the subreddit seems to be die hard acolytes while the other half seem to be extremely bitter vets of a game that hasn't been launched.

The biggest game development project ever, with extraordinary transparency, and shoddy bloggers are still making money throwing out talking points about how it's a train wreck barely half way through development.

Again: without any actual proof. However, if there is any, I will gladly change my opinion.

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#44
post #28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? Not all loans are bad, it wouldn't make sense to plan on never taking a loan.

I'm pretty sure they blew through most of their estimates. The projects was always hailed as one of the big crowdfunding break and nothing indicates they considered borrowing to finance the project given the massive amount of money they got and the time estimates they posted. By all means, check for yourself.

It would be irresponsible to operate entirely off of crowdfunded cash because that money could go a lot farther if properly invested. If you invest, then sometimes you need more cash that you have on hand. You could sell some of your assets, but if you can reliably anticipate they'd sell for significantly more at some future time (relative to interest rates), then you're better off taking a loan and then paying it off when you sell assets later.

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#45
post #36
post #13

This story reminds me of ION Storm [1], John Romero's cash rich baby that failed miserably with Daikatana. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Storm [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikatana

> Porter became CEO of ION Storm and the Dallas Observer said "He turned down a deal with Compaq computers that would have paid ION 75 cents to $1 for every Compaq computer sold with Dominion already installed, and would have guaranteed ION a minimum of $1.5 million." It's funny to think that selling your game for $1/each is a standard thing these days for mobile games. They only ended up selling very few of the game…

I've seen a fair few law offices with nap rooms.

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#46
post #37

Wouldn't we all love a breakdown on how someone spends that kind of money. So far the game is solid. But I wonder if someone had their eyes on another WOW killer.

$150M isn't that much of money if you consider their studious locations, game scale and quality of their marketing materials. I guess they spent a lot more money on marketing and communications with community since it's the only reason they managed to get so much money through crowdfunding.

For instance one of best and largest games recently produced is Witcher 3. It's cost about $81M [1] (half budget is marketing and probably localization, not sure what is source on this) and more than 250 [2] in-home developers (and 1500+ [3] people in total include localization) worked on it. And this is developers from Poland with significantly lower salaries and overall burn rate.

Now for instance about year ago Chris Roberts announced [4] they have following studios working on game: Frankfurt (50), Manchester (180), Los Angeles (60) and Austin (50). So it's about 350 developers and even if you take something like $80,000 burn rate per employee it's going to be a lot of money and actual number likely higher than that.

[1] https://www.gamespot.com/articles/this-is-how-much-the-witch...

[2] https://www.develop-online.net/interview/the-wild-road-to-th...

[3] https://www.vg247.com/2016/01/13/over-1500-people-worked-on-...

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9T48l7Oq0Q&feature=youtu.be...

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#47
post #31

You have to admit, they made really good commercials for in-game content. They stayed in character, too. A few hand-picked favorites: - Imagine: Star Citizen : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJJ9TcGxhNY - Star Citizen - MISC Freelancer Commercial : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO7RxsZpcKc - Star Citizen: Consolidated Outland Mustang Commercial : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR07oZC0QHU - Introducing the 2944 A…

My suspension of disbelief is destroyed every time I see missiles without proximity detonators.

The entire game design and physics of SC is built around "World War 2, BUT IN SPACE". I mean damn, they even have actual cockpit windows with no appreciable polarization (note the freighter pilot blinded by a simple laser scanner in the second video).

That said, missiles with proximity detonation only make sense if they're actually built to be fragmentation weapons, not pure explosive-based, due to explosion shockwaves being useless in space thanks to a lack of medium to travel in. And even for fragmentation they'd need to get really close due to inverse square law.

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#48

It's not nearly as bad as they make it seem. Loans/debt are a completely healthy source of financing.

Significant tax advantages too. Loans can also be a sign of a healthy growing company with big plans and confidence in their execution.

This is nothing more than a Redditor losing control and spreading a false rumor that has been fanned by news sites.

Also dangerously close to Libel.

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#49
post #28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? Not all loans are bad, it wouldn't make sense to plan on never taking a loan.

I'm pretty sure they blew through most of their estimates. The projects was always hailed as one of the big crowdfunding break and nothing indicates they considered borrowing to finance the project given the massive amount of money they got and the time estimates they posted. By all means, check for yourself.

Why would you assume a company would never use a loan?

Apple takes out loans and they have billions. There could be tax incentive to take out loans.

Re: Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

#50
Most interesting thing about SC is Amazon has a game publishing arm and star citizen is using lumberyard. I hope that AGS has an interest in keeping it's most high profile client alive. Some of my most nostalgic childhood memories are playing privateer with my brother.

Having someone who could say no to chris would probably be an overall win for everyone.

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