Live data from Hacker News

The slow death of the electric guitar

washingtonpost.com

51–60 of 343 posts

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#51
post #49

> “John Mayer?” he asks. “You don’t see a bunch of kids emulating John Mayer and listening to him and wanting to pick up a guitar because of him.” Sorry, but my 17 year old son was so inspired by Mayer about 5 years ago that he invested a LOT of time learning how to play guitar and sing like him, and other artists with similar styles. [0] He is now building quite a steady music career even while finishing high school…

“You don’t see a bunch of kids emulating John Mayer and listening to him and wanting to pick up a guitar because of him.” Emphasis on a bunch of kids . As someone who likes guitar it pains me to say that this seems true. My son is 11, in a (very) music-heavy school. When I was his age I think almost every boy (and some girls) in my class learnt guitar - it was the instrument. In my son's class I think there are 2 lea…

Genuine question: Has your son seen Mayer play? Either on TV or in a live situation? I remember my son being entranced when I brought home the "Where The Light Is" DVD and put it on to watch it myself. He happened to be in the room, and was hooked from the opening song to the last.

Not saying that will be the case in every instance, but I do remember the actual video that got BOTH my sons into music was an "AC/DC Live In Germany" video that I put on TV when they were both toddlers. They were duck walking all over the house and begging me to put the DVD on over and over again until I (who am a huge Angus Young fan) was thoroughly sick of it. Many years later, I took them to an AC/DC live concert in Sydney, during their "Black Ice" tour.

Exposing kids to such raw energy and musicianship on a semi regular basis is critical IMO. What they don't see, they cannot be inspired by. I also know that they won't always be inspired by what I like, and that is fine. Both my sons went through a 'thrash metal' phase, which wasn't my favourite, but it still formed a large part of their musical journey.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#52
post #34

I think the trend will continue down for guitar playing, and for all musical instruments. My theory is based on the fact that learning to play well is difficult and time consuming. Popular music is by and large not the product of humans, moving muscles, energizing mass, thus generating sound waves. "Sounds" that we hear in pop music are in main generated digitally, usually with software instruments, in a computer. Po…

Very valid remarks and that resonate a lot with digital photography as well. These days making a good picture is more about using photoshop and the like than actually making a good picture in one shot.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#53
post #31

It's ironic that young people are losing interest in the guitar at a time when there is an amazingly enormous amount of resources freely available for learning it. When I started to learn guitar several decades ago, I would learn guitar solos off of records by slowing them down to 16 rpm (old turntables could do that) and moving the needle back repeatedly to listen to tricky phrases over and over again. It was frustr…

> When I started to learn guitar several decades ago, I would learn guitar solos off of records by slowing them down to 16 rpm (old turntables could do that) and moving the needle back repeatedly to listen to tricky phrases over and over again. It was frustrating, time consuming, and hell on on the records. This made you a much better player than just looking up a video or tab though. >I would like to see guitar-orie…

"This made you a much better player than just looking up a video or tab though."

I disagree. Not about the "just looking up a tab" bit, but about the general gist of your argument that "the hard way teaches you better". Easier access to knowledge is always better when you want to learn things, and the internet is absolutely the best access to knowledge that has ever existed.

I've been playing guitar since long before the internet made it easy to find a tab or chord chart for almost any song. I learned the "hard way". I've taught guitar lessons (also before all the modern options for learning came along), took college level music classes (in high school and in college), etc. All that knowledge was hard-earned, and I appreciate the time and effort it took to learn, but if I could go back in time and give my twelve-year-old self Rock Band and the Internet I sure as hell would.

To put it into perspective, in addition to guitar I tinkered with drums even back in high school and college (though I never had my own real drumset until adulthood). When I played in bands, I'd always push for at least one song where we'd switch it up so I could play drums for a little bit. I wasn't good at drums, but it was fun and I could hold down the rhythm for a simple song. As a grown up, I started playing Rock Band. Damned if my drumming didn't go through the roof in terms of quality and confidence. And, it happened fast, too. Within a few months of playing Rock Band maybe three or four hours a week and occasionally watching a video on YouTube about problem areas, I was a completely different drummer.

What I'm trying to say is that educational tools matter and the tools provided by technology today are incredibly better than they were when those of us over, say 30, were learning to play.

Not only that, I can browse YouTube and watch hours of instruction from professionals in any field. I've watched master classes on composition for orchestra by people who do it professionally, for example. I had that kind of access to really knowledge pros for a brief window when I went to a high school for the arts and to a lesser degree during college, but after that and until the Internet, it was something I had to get from books. Learning from professionals who're speaking directly to you in a video is way more valuable than slowing down a record and listening to it a hundred times (though there's value in ear-training, the tools for that are better now than ever) or reading a book about the subject.

Anyway, the point of my rambling is: Don't let nostalgia for how it used to be to cloud your view of how much better it is today. There will likely be younger prodigies in every musical genre than ever before because of the Internet (and Rock Band and apps that let you practice your intervals, etc.) if kids still want to learn how to play instruments. I think about folks like Lorde; she was writing fully formed, mature, and extremely competent, music at a ridiculously young age. I doubt it could have happened without tech.

And, I don't know if it's awful that kids may spend time learning to play other things rather than guitar, drums, bass, and piano; maybe they're learning sequencers and samplers and such instead. It may just be different, not worse. I learned a lot about music making mods in a tracker on my Amiga back when I was a teenager. It allows one to understand the whole song in ways that banging it out by yourself on an acoustic guitar might not.

I try not to let nostalgia cloud my appreciation of art that's happening today. And, there's a lot of great art happening, in music, too, including some real rock and roll played on real instruments. Pop music has never been about the guitar, even though the guitar was ever-present in pop music for a few decades. So, it shouldn't be all that surprising that pop music isn't going to cling to the guitar; all pop really cares about is pretty faces and very catchy repetitive songs.

So, while pop goes wherever the wind blows, there are plenty of guitar rock bands being started even today. Most major cities have a great music scene of real bands playing real instruments. They may never again rule the charts the way album rock did in the 70s, but they aren't extinct.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#54

I think this article misses a key point. It's not all just about a lack of relevant role models. Today, there are so many things competing for a kids' time - social media and messaging, mobile apps, video games, Netflix - that kids are choosing other activities instead of solitary, frustrating hours practicing guitar technique. To become a proficient amateur-level guitarist, it takes around 2,000 hours of practice. T…

You have a point there- solitary mastering of an art is fought against by social networking.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#55
post #25

Slash was the last famous guitarist. There's your proof that guitarists used to be a big deal, but are no more. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitari...

??? Jack White John Mayer Are they on the list?

I'll add Angus Young. A guitar hero if ever there was one and pretty well known outside of narrow music niches.

https://youtu.be/skoZ7j5PBE8

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#57
I've been saying this for a couple of years now. None of the music I listen to anymore features an electric guitar; it's all made on laptop computers. The fun part about knowing how to play guitar is that you can learn how to play your favorite songs. But if none of your favorite songs feature an electric guitar, what fun is it anymore? I'm 30 years old and have been playing the guitar since I was 12, but it's just not as fun anymore... I'm thinking about learning how to make music on my macbook so I can stay young and hip :)

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#58

Slash was the last famous guitarist. There's your proof that guitarists used to be a big deal, but are no more. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitari...

A more apt description would be "Slash was the last famous guitarist that non guitar players would probably ever remember being mentioned in the popular press". It's along the same lines of saying "McDonalds is the fast food most people have heard of" or "BASIC is the most common programming language that everyone has heard of, so it must be the best". Within each sub-culture, there are dedicated fans that go deeper…

Whoa... is there a slap bass guitar player hiding behind him for the solo at 4:00, or is that really possible on an acoustic?

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#59
post #2

Software eating the world. As a guitarist, for some of my years professionally I can only say that this is mostly because you can emulate a lot of things today which normally required different guitars to bring out special sounds and because well most music today don't have guitar solos and thus it's hard to imagine guitar heroes coming out of music which doesn't put guitar in the front. It's not just guitars though…

I for one, welcome the death of the guitar solo.

I say this as a guitarist of more than three decades, and as a lover of great guitar playing. Rock and roll guitar solos are, by and large, the wankiest and most pointless waste of notes I can imagine. If we never get another, say Eruption, in exchange for no more awful weedly-deedly musical maelstroms I believe it is a more than fair trade. Even the good rock and roll guitar solos often aren't all that good compared to the song that surrounds them. (There are exceptions, and there are moments where the only thing that could have possibly worked was a wailing guitar...I'm thinking of something like the ending of The Chain by Fleetwood Mac...but that's not really a solo so much as a real and vital part of the song).

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#60

Slash was the last famous guitarist. There's your proof that guitarists used to be a big deal, but are no more. http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitari...

A more apt description would be "Slash was the last famous guitarist that non guitar players would probably ever remember being mentioned in the popular press". It's along the same lines of saying "McDonalds is the fast food most people have heard of" or "BASIC is the most common programming language that everyone has heard of, so it must be the best". Within each sub-culture, there are dedicated fans that go deeper…

Guitar players are usually not remembered by the general public unless they have something else (like being cute). Worse for bass players and drummers, but the frontman/singer gets remembered. It was always a fight. Singer/guitarists is always easier but, like you said, usually considered non guitarist. I listened to the youtube you included and disclaimer taste/I am old, but then I listened to a lot of what he did: it is not very impressive. Sure, if you can do that live and long stretches that is talent but a good guitarist (what is the definition outside taste? that is a question, taste should not have anything to do with that)? Do you have something that shows he can do something? And the singing is just taste but without it would be better if you have.
Post reply on HN