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6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

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Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#381

Post by adamlett »

knodi123 wrote: post #315
munchbunny wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part to me is that this is just the part of the iceberg that is visible above the surface. I've heard stories from several female founders/VC's (not naming names or specific details to protect anonymity) who have experienced repeated unwelcome advances even after it was made clear they had a significant other. That's not as egregious as groping (one of the accusations in this article), but that's still sexual…

> Another common theme I noticed is when the man in question stays in the gray area where individual incidents aren't clearly over the line and might not qualify legally as sexual harassment, but in context and in aggregate it's clear why a woman would feel very uncomfortable. This seems like a slippery slope. I can imagine malicious but careful predators who constantly test boundaries in a conscious effort to achiev…

How is it a slippery slope? Towards what? Will women eventually begin to feel uncomfortable about situations that are clearly not sexual?

Women are already reluctant to come forward when subjected to overt sexual harassment, let alone "gray area" harassment. I don't think anyone has to fear any kind of slippery slope here.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#382

Post by csomar »

michalu wrote: post #358
s_kilk wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible. As it damn well should be. To be clear: if you're making unwanted 'transgressions' against women in your workplace then you are in the wrong. Women are not your playthings.

>As it damn well should be. I met my current girlfriend, I saw her on the street coming out of the metro, we exchanged eye contact and I walked over, talked, flirted and asked for the number... We met the same night and she thanked me for coming over to talk to her. She's from France, I'm from Eastern Europe... we'd never meet otherwise and over the last year we experienced the most beautiful thing, that people call…

You met her on the street, not on the workplace. You started with an eye contact and then escalated as you were getting approval of your actions.

There is nothing wrong with that.

But I can't think of a single reason to do that in a workplace (correctly), let alone with people you are directly working/involved with. It seems to be careful not to date them. There are tons of people outside (or maybe inside the same company but in different departments you don't deal with).

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#383

Post by ben-schaaf »

rocqua wrote: post #238
solotronics wrote: post #42

Serious question, does free speech apply in these situations? You have the unalienable right to speak your mind and some people may be offended but that is not illegal. I totally understand if you are employed by someone you can't easily get away if you are made uncomfortable but this is entirely a voluntary situation. Also, if you really think about it making something that makes someone uncomfortable illegal is wei…

> defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express. - xkcd

Quoted from https://xkcd.com/1357/

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#384

Post by pbhjpbhj »

staticautomatic wrote: post #379
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a man, I will never truly understand what it feels like to be the victim of these transgressions. // Do you think that's true? Like women/men can't harras men sexually?

I do think it's true, at least as a practical matter. The fact that women can harass men doesn't make it not true.

Could you expand on your reasoning, please.

It seems to me that being sexual harassed by a person in a position of authority over you is unlikely to be that different based on sex but could differ a lot based on some of the characteristics that are often skewed to one sex or the other.

So men in general might feel greater humiliation, perhaps; women might feel more vulnerable: both because of the physical strength of men vs. women in general.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#385

Post by Firebrand »

michalu wrote: post #358
s_kilk wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible. As it damn well should be. To be clear: if you're making unwanted 'transgressions' against women in your workplace then you are in the wrong. Women are not your playthings.

>As it damn well should be. I met my current girlfriend, I saw her on the street coming out of the metro, we exchanged eye contact and I walked over, talked, flirted and asked for the number... We met the same night and she thanked me for coming over to talk to her. She's from France, I'm from Eastern Europe... we'd never meet otherwise and over the last year we experienced the most beautiful thing, that people call…

* Be attractive

* Don't be unattractive

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#386

Post by michalu »

csomar wrote: post #382
michalu wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As it damn well should be. I met my current girlfriend, I saw her on the street coming out of the metro, we exchanged eye contact and I walked over, talked, flirted and asked for the number... We met the same night and she thanked me for coming over to talk to her. She's from France, I'm from Eastern Europe... we'd never meet otherwise and over the last year we experienced the most beautiful thing, that people call…

You met her on the street, not on the workplace. You started with an eye contact and then escalated as you were getting approval of your actions. There is nothing wrong with that. But I can't think of a single reason to do that in a workplace (correctly), let alone with people you are directly working/involved with. It seems to be careful not to date them. There are tons of people outside (or maybe inside the same co…

yes but that was not the subject of the original comment - "both at work or elsewhere" ... my parents, and parents of most of my friends met in the workplace...

... there's recent legislation in Manchester, where if you talk to a woman on the street she can just accuse you of sexual harassment ... I guess we're running out of places to meet women we actually want to get to know and heading towards a world where your only 'safe' options are a lifetime porn (or sexbot) or waiting for some woman to choose you whether you like it or not ... not a nice place to be in my opinion but good luck to those aiming for it

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#387

Post by michalu »

Firebrand wrote: post #385
michalu wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As it damn well should be. I met my current girlfriend, I saw her on the street coming out of the metro, we exchanged eye contact and I walked over, talked, flirted and asked for the number... We met the same night and she thanked me for coming over to talk to her. She's from France, I'm from Eastern Europe... we'd never meet otherwise and over the last year we experienced the most beautiful thing, that people call…

* Be attractive * Don't be unattractive

There may have been 50 other more attractive guys she passed by that day... if you don't take action no level of attraction matters

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#388

Post by almccann »

xwvvvvwx wrote: post #377
coolcat84 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe the original comment was referring to anything other than banter among a group. I have been in perfectly reasonable conversations within a group where a woman has taken a statement so wildly out of context that frivolous reports are filed and it hurts the credibility of any truly meaningful incidents that may have happened. > Women are not your playthings Yeah, you're right. Neither are the livelihood…

I have been in perfectly reasonable conversations within a group where a woman has taken a statement so wildly out of context that frivolous reports are filed Why do you think you have the right to decide whether someone else should find a comment inappropriate or not?

Subjectivity versus objectivity is the crux of the issue with standards of behaviour.

I understand a common idea nowadays is the subjective standard of any group member (victim) is considered paramount in assessing conduct. But this descends into meaninglessness because all people tolerate others' conduct at differing levels.

This is why the common law has long assessed standards of behaviour using the "reasonable person" as a hypothetical objective measure of appropriate conduct in the given circumstances.[1]

The commenter may not have the right to decide appropriate behaviour, but at some point we must ask "would the reasonable person in X situation presented with Y conduct be harmed?".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#389

Post by csomar »

michalu wrote: post #386
csomar wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You met her on the street, not on the workplace. You started with an eye contact and then escalated as you were getting approval of your actions. There is nothing wrong with that. But I can't think of a single reason to do that in a workplace (correctly), let alone with people you are directly working/involved with. It seems to be careful not to date them. There are tons of people outside (or maybe inside the same co…

yes but that was not the subject of the original comment - "both at work or elsewhere" ... my parents, and parents of most of my friends met in the workplace... ... there's recent legislation in Manchester, where if you talk to a woman on the street she can just accuse you of sexual harassment ... I guess we're running out of places to meet women we actually want to get to know and heading towards a world where your…

> there's recent legislation in Manchester, where if you talk to a woman on the street she can just accuse you of sexual harassment

Link to the legislation in question? (or maybe news link about it?)

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#390

Post by michalu »

csomar wrote: post #389
michalu wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but that was not the subject of the original comment - "both at work or elsewhere" ... my parents, and parents of most of my friends met in the workplace... ... there's recent legislation in Manchester, where if you talk to a woman on the street she can just accuse you of sexual harassment ... I guess we're running out of places to meet women we actually want to get to know and heading towards a world where your…

> there's recent legislation in Manchester, where if you talk to a woman on the street she can just accuse you of sexual harassment Link to the legislation in question? (or maybe news link about it?)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/13/nottinghamshire-p...

"A police force has become the first in Britain to recognise misogyny as a hate crime ... It also includes ... uninvited verbal contact"

That's now classified as hate crime... while I agree with all other stuff, that little insert there makes a world of difference... it's Nottingham not Manchester, there are undergoing efforts to implement this elsewhere too

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