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6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

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Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#371

Post by guscost »

hnnsj wrote: post #332
ryanx435 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a perfect example of why, in a globally connected world, this problem will never be solved: different cultures have different standards for appropriateness and harrasement: you are trying to not be offensive and so used the world "girl", and someone else is offended because you didn't use the word "woman."

How about we all stop looking for reasons to be offended all the time and presume innocence and good faith until we actually do get a clearly expressed intent or do feel genuinely uncomfortable (as opposed to slightly annoyed)? I'm sure a lot of these situations can be explained by cultural differences or even language barriers such as in this case. English is the de-facto language of the tech scene, but that doesn't…

Just gonna leave this here for y'all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#372

Post by qubex »

graphememes wrote: post #361
qubex wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very happy my fiancée didn't take ’no’ to be my definitive answer. You really can't reduce these things to binary operations.

Unfortunately the majority of these individuals haven't actualized that things in life aren't completely binary and attempt to apply a binary algorithm to solve non-binary problems.

According to the accounts I have read (that have not been upheld in a court of law "beyond all reasonable doubt" or whatever the standard for these things is), this man was definitely in the wrong and had to be stopped. I applaud those women who selflessly put their names out there to stop him.

However, it seems to me, as a non-American, that the US is pretty hysterical on this topic. Humans make each other uncomfortable sometimes, some situations are inherently awkward, emotional anguish is inflicted on good people (I've had to fire a few... that's horrible on both sides of the desk)... there's no reason society should be ascribed the duty to guarantee that nobody ever finds themselves in situations they are not comfortable in.

As I mentioned, my partner pushed my boundaries a bit, but I'm doubleplusgood happy she did. In hindsight, my initial reticence was an error, and by persisting she allowed me the opportunity to correct that. Now our lives are significantly enhanced as a result. I don't see why such behaviour should be subject to censure. Did it make me uneasy? In a transitory way, yes. But it's part and parcel of existing in a social fabric.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#373

Post by twobyfour »

coldtea wrote: post #347
rayiner wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a robot club nerd so the concept of locker room talk is foreign to me. But now as a grown up, I can't say that I've ever felt unable to connect with another man because I can't make a sexually aggressive comment about a coworker or mutual acquaintance.

Note that the "sexually aggressive comment" can just refer to a plain "sexual comment" (which changes the whole sentence's meaning). And it's labelled "aggressive" because of several centuries of hardcore religious puritanism leaving their mark on all aspects of US culture. Sex is naughty. Sex talk is aggressive.

You don't have to be a puritan to think that comments that disrespect others' boundaries ("grab them by the pussy!") are aggressive.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#374

Post by coldtea »

adekok wrote: post #148
coldtea wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because men founders deal with sexual harassment (that they don't cause to others) often?

LMFGTFY: http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2011/study-finds-gender-differe... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/media-spotlight/201505/... About 20% for men and 50% for women. Your comment could also be interpreted as most male founders do sexually harass others. I'm not sure that's what you meant. The reality is that a small percentage of people constitute the majority of bad behavior. Be it harassment, or criminal ac…

>so saying "men harass" would be wrong. Saying "the bulk of harassers are men" is more correct.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#375

Post by Alex3917 »

mcbits wrote: post #323
Alex3917 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue however, that because VC's are holding the money and entrepreneurs are trying to raise, it might not be as bad as a boss/employee power dynamic, but the power is certainly held by the VC in the situation. - The vast majority of highly successful companies don't raise venture. VCs need equity, entrepreneurs don't need money. - The vast majority of companies that raise VC don't succeed. - The vast major…

One person has $100 million that they'd like to turn into $1 billion. Another person has a plan that is likely to fail, but it's new territory with great potential. If no deal happens, one person still has $100 million while the other still has their unexecuted plan and hopefully a job or something. The power imbalance is pretty obvious in that kind of scenario. It's less of an imbalance if the entrepreneur is also w…

> If no deal happens, one person still has $100 million while the other still has their unexecuted plan and hopefully a job or something. The power imbalance is pretty obvious in that kind of scenario.

I don't see any power imbalance that exists within the relationship here. Compare this with the laws that prevent a therapist from dating a client, which are in place because one party can take advantage of the other or blackmail them or have them involuntarily committed. That's a power imbalance.

I also think this is a very orientalist view of the industry. How many founders actually raise institutional money off just a deck each year, who don't otherwise have the skills to earn a lot of money consulting or whatever?

I'm not trying to defend the behavior here in any way, I just think that the reason why it's wrong for a VC to aggressively proposition a founder or whatever is different than, for example, what makes it wrong for an employer to have a relationship with an employee.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#376

Post by AnthonyMouse »

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #322
munchbunny wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part to me is that this is just the part of the iceberg that is visible above the surface. I've heard stories from several female founders/VC's (not naming names or specific details to protect anonymity) who have experienced repeated unwelcome advances even after it was made clear they had a significant other. That's not as egregious as groping (one of the accusations in this article), but that's still sexual…

> Another common theme I noticed is when the man in question stays in the gray area where individual incidents aren't clearly over the line and might not qualify legally as sexual harassment, but in context and in aggregate it's clear why a woman would feel very uncomfortable. How do you confront something like that when they can just question your perception of reality? This is where professionalism and propriety co…

> This is where professionalism and propriety come in. One's behavior should simply be well outside the gray area and straying into it should, itself, be grounds for confrontation.

That doesn't actually fix anything, you're just defining the gray area to be further to one side. If people actually did that then expectations would change and more innocuous behavior would fall into the gray area, requiring you to move the line again.

The gray area exists because not everybody agrees where the line is.

In some cultures it is illegal for a man and a woman who are not married to even be alone in a room together. In some cultures physical contact between acquaintances is normal behavior. In a multicultural society, whose culture should have the force of law?

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#377

Post by xwvvvvwx »

coolcat84 wrote: post #356
s_kilk wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible. As it damn well should be. To be clear: if you're making unwanted 'transgressions' against women in your workplace then you are in the wrong. Women are not your playthings.

I don't believe the original comment was referring to anything other than banter among a group. I have been in perfectly reasonable conversations within a group where a woman has taken a statement so wildly out of context that frivolous reports are filed and it hurts the credibility of any truly meaningful incidents that may have happened. > Women are not your playthings Yeah, you're right. Neither are the livelihood…

I have been in perfectly reasonable conversations within a group where a woman has taken a statement so wildly out of context that frivolous reports are filed

Why do you think you have the right to decide whether someone else should find a comment inappropriate or not?

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#378

Post by coolcat84 »

xwvvvvwx wrote: post #377
coolcat84 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe the original comment was referring to anything other than banter among a group. I have been in perfectly reasonable conversations within a group where a woman has taken a statement so wildly out of context that frivolous reports are filed and it hurts the credibility of any truly meaningful incidents that may have happened. > Women are not your playthings Yeah, you're right. Neither are the livelihood…

I have been in perfectly reasonable conversations within a group where a woman has taken a statement so wildly out of context that frivolous reports are filed Why do you think you have the right to decide whether someone else should find a comment inappropriate or not?

Because when it's clearly frivolous and results in no action by management (who deem it a non-issue), all it does is create a work environment where people aren't comfortable talking about ANYTHING. I'm not talking about clearly inappropriate speech in the workplace, I'm talking about normal conversation that is twisted and misconstrued to attack others. I have witnessed this happen multiple times and it is baffling.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#379

Post by staticautomatic »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #339
staticautomatic wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am deeply sorry for using my position as an investor to take advantage of the female founders who came to me and my firm seeking only our help and support. What I did was cruel and wrong. The harm I've done to myself, my firm, my reputation, and my family does not compare to the harm I did these women. As a man, I will never truly understand what it feels like to be the victim of these transgressions. I can only s…

>As a man, I will never truly understand what it feels like to be the victim of these transgressions. // Do you think that's true? Like women/men can't harras men sexually?

I do think it's true, at least as a practical matter. The fact that women can harass men doesn't make it not true.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#380

Post by tacomonstrous »

Skeptique wrote: post #366
Stenzel wrote: post #351

This article has zero information, but a picture and name of the accused man. This modern kind of witch hunt is disgusting. It also seems to be that the bar for calling something sexual harassement is constantly lowered and results in a poisoned atmosphere where any playful transgression between genders is rendered impossible. It also contradicts my personal experience, where men and women alike enjoy to initiate tal…

The amusing thing is -- when men are too careful, that is also supposedly sexist. Consider VP Pence's stance on not having dinner with women, his extreme guard against any potential impropriety. The reaction? Here is one: "The vice president—and other powerful men—regularly avoid one-on-one meetings with women in the name of protecting their families. In the end, what suffers is women’s progress." https://www.theatla…

It can be a fine line, but a superior who refuses to meet one-on-one with you just because you're a woman is not doing their job well.
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