Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

observer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 484 posts

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#241

Post by acid__ »

staticautomatic wrote: post #223
rfrey wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: can you tell me what phrases in particular you read this way? I read almost everything exactly the opposite way - and I'm genuinely curious which sentences can be interpreted so differently by different people.

"The past 24 hours have been the darkest of my life." - This is all about me, not the women. I've had a rough time and I want your sympathy. "I have made many mistakes over the course of my career, some of which were brought to light this week." - I'm probably a pathological predator but prefer to view my illness and/or poor character as a set of "mistakes" because that's easier on me than admitting I'm a piece of sh…

I'm curious: if you were somehow in his position -- and were now actually genuinely apologetic, were actually blind to your own actions, were actually sorry for the harm you've done --

How would you word your apology such that it couldn't be interpreted in this (self-serving, not actually sorry) way?

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#242

Post by handedness »

dragonwriter wrote: post #132
handedness wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Judge for yourself. Why the need to judge? Whether he's guilty or innocent, it's a tragic story for all involved, and it's not our job to make that decision: this is why we have a legal system on which our society is founded. Now, if I had a direct relationship with Mr. Caldbeck I would certainly make my own estimations and act accordingly, but I don't understand why everyone feels this need to act as judge and jur…

> this is why we have a legal system on which our society is founded. No, we do not. Our society is not founded on the legal system; the legal system is one feature of our society, intended to deal with the most serious failures of normal operations.

You're arguing a point that's irrelevant to my conclusion, but it's difficult to see the rule of law as anything other than part of our foundation. Remove it and a whole lot of things stop working in a hurry.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#243

Post by handedness »

ithinkinstereo wrote: post #146
handedness wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Judge for yourself. Why the need to judge? Whether he's guilty or innocent, it's a tragic story for all involved, and it's not our job to make that decision: this is why we have a legal system on which our society is founded. Now, if I had a direct relationship with Mr. Caldbeck I would certainly make my own estimations and act accordingly, but I don't understand why everyone feels this need to act as judge and jur…

In this case, we don't have to judge. Caldbeck already admitted to it. Case closed, time for sentencing.

In any case, we don't have to judge, unless we're serving as judges or jurors.

Or are you also interested in determining sentencing and throwing the switch?

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#244

Post by munchbunny »

Alex3917 wrote: post #210
munchbunny wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part to me is that this is just the part of the iceberg that is visible above the surface. I've heard stories from several female founders/VC's (not naming names or specific details to protect anonymity) who have experienced repeated unwelcome advances even after it was made clear they had a significant other. That's not as egregious as groping (one of the accusations in this article), but that's still sexual…

> that's still sexual harassment by the letter of the law and slimy as hell every other way. IANAL, but legally it's not sexual harassment because they don't work at the same company. Something is only sexual harassment in two cases: 1) a supervisor offers something to a subordinate in exchange for sexual favors 2) a company is found to have created a hostile work environment. In both cases it's the company that's li…

You are right that it's not illegal because it's not within the scope of a company.

What I meant is that the EEOC decided to draw a line, and aside from the "in the context of a company" requirement, the behavior in the stories I've heard definitely crosses that line rather than just being an uncomfortable and sketchy situation.

I would argue however, that because VC's are holding the money and entrepreneurs are trying to raise, it might not be as bad as a boss/employee power dynamic, but the power is certainly held by the VC in the situation.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#245

Post by handedness »

ebola1717 wrote: post #138
handedness wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the nature of sexual harassment, and the often power imbalance between the harasser and victim, naturally provides the harasser with all the advantages. That is correct in cases where harassment has occurred, yes. In cases of false accusation, though, the accuser has nearly all of the advantages. And it's not as if it never happens, either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Estim... https://en.…

Your links say we can believe these allegations with 90-98% confidence. Actually, multiply that by 6 women, and that's 99.9999% confidence, assuming the low end of that. My request services only have to have a 99.9% success rate.

I didn't provide that to indicate a confidence level in the guilt of the accused, but to say that the reason we have due process is because serious allegations should be treated seriously, and the comments section of a tech 'blog isn't the place to act as judge, jury, or executioner.

Else we're little better than places that hold mock trials and summary executions.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#246

Post by kafkaesq »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #215
Alex3917 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's still sexual harassment by the letter of the law and slimy as hell every other way. IANAL, but legally it's not sexual harassment because they don't work at the same company. Something is only sexual harassment in two cases: 1) a supervisor offers something to a subordinate in exchange for sexual favors 2) a company is found to have created a hostile work environment. In both cases it's the company that's li…

What? Anyone can be sexually harassed by anyone else, workplace has nothing to do with it. Sexual harassment in the workplace is egregious because the conflict of interests. E.g. my boss harasses me, but if I complain I jeopardize my livelihood.

workplace has nothing to do with it.

Unfortunately this isn't true, from a legal point of view; in many jurisdictions, the legal definition of SH is specifically tailored (and constrained) to "the workplace".

Mind you I'm not talking about what's "slimy", "invasive", or what infringes on one's natural rights as a human being or anything about that. But rather, the legal definition. Which doesn't always jibe with what people would or like it to be.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#247

Post by [deleted] »

staticautomatic wrote: post #223
rfrey wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: can you tell me what phrases in particular you read this way? I read almost everything exactly the opposite way - and I'm genuinely curious which sentences can be interpreted so differently by different people.

"The past 24 hours have been the darkest of my life." - This is all about me, not the women. I've had a rough time and I want your sympathy. "I have made many mistakes over the course of my career, some of which were brought to light this week." - I'm probably a pathological predator but prefer to view my illness and/or poor character as a set of "mistakes" because that's easier on me than admitting I'm a piece of sh…

[deleted]

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#248

Post by irpapakons »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #227
irpapakons wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem very passionate about defending alleged harassers. I just wonder what fuels that. Perhaps you think these events are not that bad, or some degree of inappropriate behaviour is ok?

This comment is a microcosm of 'ddoolin's point. Step back and read it a few times, and think about what you're saying: you've presented an alternative view from my own, so sexual harassment must be acceptable to you.

I agree my reply was not helpful, but there was a point I was trying to make:

Sometimes people who are keen to defend harassers might do so because they exhibit similar behaviours themselves or hold similar beliefs and want to defend themselves.

Here is an example from this very story: Caldbeck tweeted in support of Uber: "Also mob mentality w @Uber right now. Guilty before proven innocent on everything".

I genuinely think it's worth self-examining one's motivations if someone's first instinct is to defend the man in such a case. I say this without trying to accuse anyone, sexism is subtle and affects everyone, and it's through self examination that we can grow and improve.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#249

Post by jsmthrowaway »

irpapakons wrote: post #248
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a microcosm of 'ddoolin's point. Step back and read it a few times, and think about what you're saying: you've presented an alternative view from my own, so sexual harassment must be acceptable to you.

I agree my reply was not helpful, but there was a point I was trying to make: Sometimes people who are keen to defend harassers might do so because they exhibit similar behaviours themselves or hold similar beliefs and want to defend themselves. Here is an example from this very story: Caldbeck tweeted in support of Uber: "Also mob mentality w @Uber right now. Guilty before proven innocent on everything". I genuinely…

I'm aware of the point you were trying to make; it was what spawned my comment, because it is wrong. Adding words to it makes me agree less, not more. You're basically saying anybody who lobbies for not persecuting someone based on allegations must be sympathetic to the allegations, in every case, and you cite going through Twitter as if you're compiling oppo to make your point. If you don't see the danger in that line of thought, or how it makes you complicit in mob-style behavior when the incentives line up, I'm not sure how best to show you.

Ad hominem being acceptable on a few pet issues is a value system I've noticed that many people, including you, have. I would ask why. I've had this turned on me, too, hence why I'm not surprised; I'm reminded of defense lawyers who receive death threats and actual violence, as well.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#250

Post by theptip »

mothers wrote: post #92
niniane wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 reporters have tried over the years. Justin made threats against them. So they all gave up. One of them describes this in his article: https://www.axios.com/silicon-valleys-sexist-swamp-244683763... "The unfortunate truth is that I simply could not write this until Albergotti published, as I didn't have anyone on the record, which is virtually essential from a journalistic perspective. "

Wow. Honestly that sounds like a start-up opportunity. Is there really no venue for people to speak out without potentially harming themselves?

Here's a platform that aims to solve this problem:

https://www.projectcallisto.org/

Victims report incidents, an their info is not shared at the time of report. Victims can elect to have their reports unsealed if subsequent accusations are made against the same individual. This mirrors the current status quo, where it's less common for victims to speak out if there are no other cases to corroborate, but makes discovery of other cases more feasible.

It's being rolled out specifically in the context of college sexual assault, but I imagine the approach could work elsewhere too.

Post reply on HN