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6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

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Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#91

Post by sp332 »

coldtea wrote: post #87
sp332 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due process is for criminal charges and sentencing. It doesn't apply anywhere else. [Edit: OK and other state stuff. Point stands.] Even if you sue someone, you only need a "preponderance of evidence" and not to prove beyond reasonable doubt. Outside of a courtroom, you can literally make up anything you want. For example, if you're a founder and you hear a rumor of a VC being a serial harasser, you might decide to s…

> Due process is for criminal charges and sentencing. It doesn't apply anywhere else. Waiting for the facts/verdict though, and not forming an internet mob based on whatever one person or another said, SHOULD apply anywhere.

Hm, I am kinda against internet mobs. But I don't see a way to form a consensus about whether this guy is guilty or not, or what to do about it if he is. At the same time, we do need some kind of defense mechanism to make sure people are secure. We can't just let everything slide because we're perpetually waiting for more evidence.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#92

Post by mothers »

niniane wrote: post #78
mothers wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why did your reporter think it was necessary that you go and out yourself?

3 reporters have tried over the years. Justin made threats against them. So they all gave up. One of them describes this in his article: https://www.axios.com/silicon-valleys-sexist-swamp-244683763... "The unfortunate truth is that I simply could not write this until Albergotti published, as I didn't have anyone on the record, which is virtually essential from a journalistic perspective. "

Wow. Honestly that sounds like a start-up opportunity. Is there really no venue for people to speak out without potentially harming themselves?

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#93

Post by chronic7ul »

DavidAdams wrote: post #86
solotronics wrote: post #42

Serious question, does free speech apply in these situations? You have the unalienable right to speak your mind and some people may be offended but that is not illegal. I totally understand if you are employed by someone you can't easily get away if you are made uncomfortable but this is entirely a voluntary situation. Also, if you really think about it making something that makes someone uncomfortable illegal is wei…

Have you ever heard the term "assault and battery?" Battery is hitting someone. Assault doesn't have to include physical contact to be a crime, it just has to include action that demonstrates an attempt to harm or threaten. It's true that there are a lot of things that a creep VC could say to a female founder that would be creepy, that would be harassment, that should probably get him fired, but wouldn't be criminal.…

I consider your very statements an assault to me. Your arugment breaks down since nonphysical harm is subjective.

I'd aruge that Berkely students psychologically assaulted Milo Yiannopoulos.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#94

Post by sillysaurus3 »

niniane wrote: post #58
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it involves rich or powerful people, the ability to get many she-said's becomes easier. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but due process exists for a reason. We should reserve judgement until the investigation progresses further.

I am one of the three women who went on the record: Niniane Wang. I'm one of the "she-said"s. I have nothing to gain from this. I am not suing. I'm founder & CEO of a Greylock-funded startup. Thankfully Greylock has come out in full support, but I didn't know that beforehand and was very nervous when I decided to do the article. The only way that any reporter would agree to publish was if I used my real name. I knew…

Sorry, I didn't mean to cast doubts. All I meant was that we should reserve judgement. In this case, it sounds pretty clear-cut, but the point was about future cases that may not be so straightforward.

I can only imagine how stressful a situation like this can be, so I certainly didn't mean to increase it. Best of luck.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#95

Post by RestlessMind »

niniane wrote: post #43
_m8fo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I read that, but is it necessary to be publicly on the record? Couldn't the information be privately confirmed, protecting the women from retaliation and still allowing the case/accusation to move forward? It just seems like an unnecessary risk/vulnerability. Of course, there's also the fact that by going on the record you also encourage others to do the same, which is an immeasurable benefit.

I am one of the three women who went on the record with my name: Niniane Wang. I initially asked to be anonymous, but no reporter would publish unless they had named sources. I knew that Justin was continuing to harass women. Using my name was the only way to stop him. In other words, yes, it was necessary to be publicly on the record.

Thanks for speaking out, Niniane. To improve the environment in the Valley, we need brave people like you.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#96

Post by psyc »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #26
vkou wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it involves serial harassers, the ability to get many she-saids becomes easy, too. Do you really think that founders are lining up to put their personal and professional reputation on the line, to smear this guy, as part of a vast female conspiracy? They have fucking text messages to back their story up. Are those easy to fabricate too, when it comes to rich and powerful people?

No, I don't. But do you think it's reasonable to crucify him before any investigation happens? My comment was a bit too female-focused. It wasn't about she-said's or a female conspiracy, but rather the ease of getting people to smear someone that has enemies. It's hard not to notice that the claim of sexual harassment is as equally damaging now as being called a communist was in the 50's. It's obviously quite differe…

Yes, it is the very definition of reasonable in this case. I believe a reasonable person, given the information available one or two clicks hence, would be completely unsurprised to learn that these 6 women are reporting events that happened, and extremely surprised to learn it was a conspiracy or series of unusually unfortunate misunderstandings.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#97

Post by gizmo686 »

coldtea wrote: post #84
ganoushoreilly wrote: post #66

is the last thing you want as a founder

Because men founders deal with sexual harassment (that they don't cause to others) often?

That is not the point. There are two ways to view the problem: it is either a women's problem, or a people problem that dissproportionantly affects women. By framing it as a womens problem, you are turning it into an issue of identity politics, with all the pros and cons that come with it. (eg, stronger solidarity from the in-group, at the expanse of alienating the out-group, as well as the growing backlash to identity politics in general.)

Also, even if relativly rare, we do not want to needlessly ignore male victims.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#98

Post by sp332 »

go42 wrote: post #65
hackinthebochs wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Recent events have shown that you can flat out admit to drugging women in order to have sex with them Quaaludes was a party drug in its day, taken specifically for its effects. The fact that he acquired the drug to have sex with women doesn't imply he used it to rape them.

He admitted in the deposition (10-years ago) for the current trial that he gave the girl Benadryl to relax. I've never known any guy ever to give a girl Benadryl. If she is sick, take care of her. Don't dose her and have sex with her.

He gave her three benadryl and told her they were herbal supplements.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#99

Post by ithinkinstereo »

gorbachev wrote: post #52
snvzz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologising. A classic mistake. What's possibly just a display of good will is going to get abused as admission of guilt.

This apology translates to: "I think they're full of shit, but I apologize anyway"

No, thats not at all how his apology translates.

This is his statement in full:

Obviously, I am deeply disturbed by these allegations. While significant context is missing from the incidents reported by The Information, I deeply regret ever causing anyone to feel uncomfortable. The fact is that I have been privileged to have worked with female entrepreneurs throughout my career and I sincerely apologize to anyone who I made uncomfortable by my actions. There’s no denying this is an issue in the venture community, and I hate that my behavior has contributed to it.

How do you get "I think they're full of shit" out of that? This reads to me like a tacit admission that if anything else, his behavior is inappropriate and sketchy by any conventional sense. Appropriate and professional behavior does not need "significant context" to back it up.

Re: 6 Women Accuse Tech VC Justin Caldbeck of Sexual Assault and Harassment

#100

Post by daveFNbuck »

abakker wrote: post #44
_m8fo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I read that, but is it necessary to be publicly on the record? Couldn't the information be privately confirmed, protecting the women from retaliation and still allowing the case/accusation to move forward? It just seems like an unnecessary risk/vulnerability. Of course, there's also the fact that by going on the record you also encourage others to do the same, which is an immeasurable benefit.

I could see how being publicly on the record might also protect people from retaliation. If any retaliation occurs now, won't it be easy to point to this story?

Retaliation isn't always obvious. If half of VCs used to return your calls and now none of them do, which ones are retaliating against you and which ones are part of the half that wouldn't have returned your call anyway?
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