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Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

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Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#241
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like my accountant reading my receipts to create my tax return versus a sleazy salesman sneaking a peek at them to find new ways to sell me stuff.

I don't understand why seeing an ad is so bad. So a sleazy salesman is more annoying because they are in your way. But if you're going to see ads anyway, I'd rather they be relevant!! Can soemone explain why given that there will be ads either way they actually prefer irrelevant ads?

Relevant ad is euphemism for "ad that makes you buy stuff you would happily not own otherwise". Since ads in general work (they make people buy more or different stuff) and you can not objectively evaluate whether you was influenced by ads, it is rational to avoid them.

Practically, once add service knows I am women, it insist on showing me ads for menstruation cups everywhere I browse. I also find juxtaposition of baby accessories and relaxation bullshit on metal, programming or games site mood killing. When they know less about me, I actually get less weird more neutral less crappy ads.

Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#242
So this never really bugged me. It is a damn good free service. I also love how it picks up on plane tickets, hotel reservations, etc and puts them in the calendar. Makes life simpler.

If ad companies fix something please fix the I searched for something and bought it but I get adds for it for the next 4 weeks. That bugs me.

Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#243
post #107
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like your accountant preparing your tax return for free in exchange for aggregating data about your receipts and offering you goods and services you may be interested in.

Let's split the difference. It's like your accountant preparing your tax return in exchange for using that tax return to develop a model of your spending habits. The value of this model is more than the cost of them doing your tax returns, and in fact is such that if you were simply to collect that data yourself, sell it on the open market, and spend a portion of the proceeds on the tax prep service, you would end up…

> if you were simply to collect that data yourself, sell it on the open market, and spend a portion of the proceeds on the tax prep service, you would end up with profit

Hmm. Could you sell it on the open market? If so--if the margins for the ad-supported model like Google's are in fact as big as they appear--why isn't there a Google competitor who provides exactly the service you describe: some kind of opt-in system where they collect data (via, say, a browser extension), sell it to advertisers, and pay you a cut?

One generic answer to "why does the market not offer [some seemingly reasonable thing]" is inefficiency: maybe there's some cartel system at work where all major advertisers are hoarding the revenue for themselves. But I find that pretty unconvincing, since the whole market _seems_ to be otherwise quite competitive, and with low barriers to entry.

Perhaps a more likely theory is that if you were to offer a "we pay you for personal data" competitor, you'd face massive fraud--a la click fraud--in which attackers would pretend to be real users in order to get paid for searching (or whatever), and that the subsequent need for identity verification would become so burdensome as to eat away any profits.

Anyway, an interesting thought exercise, but I think one can broadly conclude that either:

1. There are real obstacles to paying people the "fair" price for their data, such that the current system is in fact fairer than it appears. 2. The entire market is unfair due to a cartel or similar (though like I said, I find this fairly unconvincing). 3. This is a great idea and you're the first to have it, so you should start a company that does exactly this. ;)

No?

Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#244
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. Is that drone providing me with some other useful service, or is it following me around entirely without my knowledge or consent? Gmail provides me with a free email service. They already have the full text of all my emails. If they want to use that data to help decide what ads to serve me, I have no problem with that so long as that data isn't shared with anyone else without my consent.

But your profile is not just linked with Gmail. Its across Google, including any future products. Its a kind of cross-product tying using customer data (which gives them an easy leg-up on new ad-subsidized products) that I would assume attracts anti-trust scrutiny. I think its fair for you to accept the terms, if you know what you're getting in return. The problem here is that you will never know exactly what informa…

> The problem here is that you will never know exactly what information is stored about you, and how personal it is, and you have zero control over it.

On the contrary. I know what emails are stored in my inbox just as well as Google does. I can also search through that information and delete it if I so choose, so I do have control over it.

Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#245
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like my accountant reading my receipts to create my tax return versus a sleazy salesman sneaking a peek at them to find new ways to sell me stuff.

I don't understand why seeing an ad is so bad. So a sleazy salesman is more annoying because they are in your way. But if you're going to see ads anyway, I'd rather they be relevant!! Can soemone explain why given that there will be ads either way they actually prefer irrelevant ads?

Here's why I prefer irrelevant ads:

1. Targeted ads catch my attention better. Frequently I don't even notice or remember irrelevant adds.

2. Targeted ads are almost always, SEOed (if you will) to me; that is, they seem relevant, they offer the solution needed to fix the precise problem I'm discussing in the email chain, I click, I read, I would buy, but I realize that the product offered is nothing like what I've been reading about on the landing page.

3. Targeted adds are much more effective at convincing me to spend money on stuff or services that I could have lived without.

Sure, I should toughen up mentally against ads, but until I do, I protect myself from ads that will manipulate me and one way to do that is to prefer irrelevant ads when I need to see them.

Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not ceasing it for business accounts, they've never done it for business accounts. The article is about free Gmail accounts. If you look at the terms for G Suite (the paid business product), that is a top selling point. Businesses who pay for G Suite don't want Google using their data for anything , and Google complies. Edit: in response to comment below, here are the main docs describing, including the Data…

I'm really not trying to be pedantic, but that's not what the article says. It says that Google never data-mined business accounts to serve ads, not that they never data-mine business accounts under any circumstances. If that's true, and you can point to marketing or a service agreement that outlines these terms, I'd be happy to know and will gladly buy a paid account. EDIT: I think these are the terms and I don't se…

You'd probably have to be more specific about what you're defining as "mining".

Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#248
post #192
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They advertise it as such. From their privacy policy: "Incoming messages are scanned for the purpose of spam detection unless you disable spam protection for your account... To make message searching fast, we build an index of your messages (this is a table, just like you would find at the back of a reference book, in which you can look up a word to quickly find the emails in which it appears). No information from an…

Is it generally possible to reconstruct email(=text) with indicies if they are stolen/hacked ? Although Im not questioning fastmail ability to provide secured email service. Yet I cannot help think why I would rely on a small player for email. I would ask what is the probability of fastmail service getting hacked say compared to gmail. (Somebody has right pointed out that ) Ad relevance to your email is not same as r…

If I were to use Gmail I would consider myself already hacked.

Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#249

I very recently switched to fastmail and couldn't be happier. For $90 a year, I don't have to deal with people snooping and tracking me around for ads. I know google is trying to give me value with all their facial recognition and recommendations, but I don't think it is going to end well. When it does end badly, it will be too late for the user because we would've given up all the data. I don't want Google to build…

> 90$ a year Sounds excessive. Does this include any special features beyond privacy? I pay 1€ per month for a privacy-respecting mailbox at posteo.de

$90 is the most expensive plan. Their basic plan start from $30 or $3 a month. I'll downgrade to a cheaper plan in the future, but $90 a year for something I use on a daily basis does not seem excessive to me. That is about ¢25 a day.

Re: Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads

#250

I very recently switched to fastmail and couldn't be happier. For $90 a year, I don't have to deal with people snooping and tracking me around for ads. I know google is trying to give me value with all their facial recognition and recommendations, but I don't think it is going to end well. When it does end badly, it will be too late for the user because we would've given up all the data. I don't want Google to build…

I tried Fastmail for a while but I just couldn't deal with the spam. There was a lot of spam and Gmail's filters seem to be better at dealing with it.
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