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Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

bicycletimesmag.com

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Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#131

Post by antisthenes »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #34
rorykoehler wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always infuriated me. Cyclists are treated like second class citizens even when designing cycling infrastructure. Then we get yelled at for riding on the road. On top of this often the cycling lanes on the edge of main roads also double up as puncture hazards making it risky to use them.

Why? It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap. Forklifts yield to service trucks. Service trucks yield to heavy equipment. Heavy equipment yields to bigger heavy equipment. Big heavy equipment yields to trains. Trains yield to ships.

> It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap.

Such a principle, stripped of all disguise, is surely the mere primitive doctrine that might is right. Surely, we can do better.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#132

Post by bobabooey02 »

naravara wrote: post #127
bobabooey02 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't legislate away a cultural problem. See the drug wars, anti discrimination laws, and others. If we're going to be so cheap that we can't add bicycle infrastructure then we need to at least fund a public awareness campaign and possibly start teaching our kids about it.

>You can't legislate away a cultural problem. [Lots of places beg to differ]( https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/dutch-kids-have-different-r... ). You can't bully people into being good, but there are lots of nudges like education and more thoughtful design that can move culture to work better.

You are right. I guess I should have said "you can't punish away a cultural problem." Using legislation to change the culture itself can certainly work if done right.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#133

Post by coddingtonbear »

bobabooey02 wrote: post #124
coddingtonbear wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like fining and, if necessary, revoking the drivers licenses of dangerously aggressive drivers might be a simple way of solving the problem, no? Sharing public goods is be the norm in other areas of society; why not on the road?

You can't legislate away a cultural problem. See the drug wars, anti discrimination laws, and others. If we're going to be so cheap that we can't add bicycle infrastructure then we need to at least fund a public awareness campaign and possibly start teaching our kids about it.

Although your examples are valid, there are many counter-examples: see increasingly-stringent enforcement of anti drunken-driving laws since the 1970s. Although drunken driving does still occur, it's vastly more uncommon than it was before we began legitimately enforcing the laws we have.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#134

Post by dmurray »

ygra wrote: post #112
dmurray wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with Italian road signs but I'd interpret that sign to mean the exact opposite: pedestrians only.

Then it would be blue, not white with a red border. The latter always signifies a forbiddance, while blue signs are an allowance (and often implicitly disallowing everything else).

Interesting, in Ireland we don't have the red and white pedestrian sign, but we do have the likes of this[0] red and white taxi sign signifying a taxi rank (implicitly disallowing parking for non-taxis).

For "no pedestrians", we have what to my eyes much more sensible: the same sign as the Italian one but with a strike through it [1]

[0]http://st2.depositphotos.com/7458252/11066/i/950/depositphot...

[1]http://www.gettyimages.es/detail/foto/no-pedestrians-in-irel...

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#135

Post by QuarterReptile »

coldpie wrote: post #68
landhar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither the biker nor the driver in the OP's post are in the wrong In the OP's situation, the drivers that exhibit aggressive and dangerous behavior are clearly in the wrong. You could argue that their frustration is understandable, but their behavior is certainly wrong.

So is the guy who steals an unlocked bike. What are you going to do? You're going to not create that situation in the first place. You're going to use a bike lock. "Share the road" is a dumb solution, as evidenced by the OP. It simply does not work . Find another solution.

So do you have a solution in mind, or are you asking for one? If the latter, then it's simple: narrower lanes. If you make the lanes 9ft wide in each direction, I promise that you will never again be delayed by the speed of bikers, though the bikers may find themselves upset about motor vehicle speeds being too low.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#136

Post by BigIQ »

For anyone who has even read a bit on infrastructure, this is a no brainer. The problem with alternative transportation is you have to go all in to see the benefits. Half assing it won't work. But half assing it is what a lot of places do, and then they say "see, ridership didn't increase, going further is just a waste of money."

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#137

Post by QuarterReptile »

coldpie wrote: post #66
sidlls wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have more sympathy for your position if auto drivers didn't seem to think they owned the road, margins, turn lanes and basically anything else that isn't a building. Shared space doesn't mean "shared with other auto drivers only."

Okay, so why doesn't it work? You can complain about drivers all you like, but fundamentally car traffic and bike traffic are incompatible. You can't expect a driver traveling at 30 MPH on a 30 MPH road to suddenly and calmly accept that they are now traveling 10 MPH because of the guy in front of them. Swap the biker for a driver going 20 MPH under the speed limit and you're looking at a road rage situation. Sharing…

And you know what else is a ridiculous demand on drivers: stop signs! When they demand I drop from 40mph to zero, you can't be surprised that I don't just lie down and take it. Sure, I legally "shouldn't" have stolen all the stop signs on my commute, but if that's wrong, then screw being right. What am I stopping for anyway? Nothing in my way deserves to survive the morning.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#138

Post by QuarterReptile »

yourapostasy wrote: post #108

Interesting. For the cyclists out there, would you pay out of pocket for a bi-directional elevated bike/walk-run track, with access from every street intersection, Japanese-style underground bike garages and automatically-cleaning showers/toilets at public transit intersections? If so, how much? I would, at $0.25-0.50 per mile, $0.25 per hour storage, and $2 per use of showers. I don't know if that would pencil out e…

What are you talking about? Can you define some of the problems you're trying to solve? It feels like you're writing a parody of something. The post is about keeping bike lanes simple and cheap so we'll just build them already. Yours is the opposite, no?

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#139

Post by rocqua »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #38
rocqua wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the netherlands, cyclist paradise, we don't even have a painted bike lane on nearly every street. There are also streets where biking isn't allowed. These are mostly major car arteries. It is imperative to realize there are places where cyclists don't belong. Just like it is imperative to realize that in most places in the city, cyclists do belong.

It was my understanding that major car arteries in the Netherlands usually had adjacent bike paths that were slightly set apart from the road, ala: https://www.google.de/maps/@52.1084742,5.0647,3a,75y,172.64h... > Here in the netherlands, cyclist paradise, we don't even have a painted bike lane on nearly every street. With narrow streets and low speeds, cyclists and cars can effectively mix. It's just that in the US,…

Indeed most major roads have adjacent bike paths. Certainly not all though. No highways do, and there are some other roads where it doesn't make sense.

Cycling on highways is a total no-go here. I've never heard of it happening, and I'd expect the police to be called whenever someone sees it.

You're right on the narrow streets and low speeds. That is a much bigger cultural / civil-engineering thing. It makes me wonder how cycling infrastructure is done in Rotterdam. It's city centre needed to be completely rebuild after WW2. The result is regarded by some as ugly or 'american'. Perhaps this has affected cycling, or perhaps that was taken into account in the rebuild.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#140

Post by TulliusCicero »

rocqua wrote: post #139
TulliusCicero wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was my understanding that major car arteries in the Netherlands usually had adjacent bike paths that were slightly set apart from the road, ala: https://www.google.de/maps/@52.1084742,5.0647,3a,75y,172.64h... > Here in the netherlands, cyclist paradise, we don't even have a painted bike lane on nearly every street. With narrow streets and low speeds, cyclists and cars can effectively mix. It's just that in the US,…

Indeed most major roads have adjacent bike paths. Certainly not all though. No highways do, and there are some other roads where it doesn't make sense. Cycling on highways is a total no-go here. I've never heard of it happening, and I'd expect the police to be called whenever someone sees it. You're right on the narrow streets and low speeds. That is a much bigger cultural / civil-engineering thing. It makes me wonde…

In the US you can't bike on freeways either (I avoid saying 'highways' as technically the term can refer to a number of different types of roads, whereas freeways only mean roads that have completely controlled access (on ramps and off ramps, no stoplights or stop signs)).
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