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Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

bicycletimesmag.com

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Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#61

Post by coldpie »

Jacqued wrote: post #55
coldpie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so now they're undergoing a renovation for bikes. Good! Renovate them to accommodate bikes. That's great, do more of that. But "sharing the road" is a terrible solution, which leads to the honks and dangerous situations the OP described. Neither the biker nor the drivers in the OP's post are in the wrong. It's just a really terrible situation that really should not happen.

Wait, you mean drivers deliberately hitting a biker with their car are not in the wrong?

Heheh, I feel like I'm making my point poorly :) The driver is in a 3000 pound vehicle capable of accelerating from 5 MPH to 60 MPH in a couple of seconds. The biker is an unprotected human capable of traveling 10, maybe 20 MPH as an absolute maximum. My point is that these two objects cannot share traffic on a US street that is designed for cars traveling 30 MPH for more than a brief period of time.

If they do share that traffic lane, bad things will happen. Humans will make bad decisions, because humans are dumb and fallible. My point is that situation should not occur in the first place. It's engineered to fail, and sure enough, it does.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#62

Post by sidlls »

coldpie wrote: post #48
Tommyixi wrote: post #45

I'm a biker in Boston; I cycle 5 miles to work and 5 miles home on a daily basis. I think the city is doing an amazing job with what they are given but so many of the roads are just too narrow for dedicated bike lanes. Most streets have "sharrows" which is great but honestly what it comes down to is a lack of understanding on how to share the road. I'm constantly honked and shouted at for commanding full use of the d…

It is pretty frustrating to be forced to go 10 MPH on a 30 MPH road. The roads also aren't designed for traffic to go 20 MPH slower than it ought to be, traffic starts to build up, causing more delays and frustration. I think we should be more accommodating of bikers, but asking them to share the road and be treated the same as cars is not the answer.

I'd have more sympathy for your position if auto drivers didn't seem to think they owned the road, margins, turn lanes and basically anything else that isn't a building.

Shared space doesn't mean "shared with other auto drivers only."

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#63

Post by sidlls »

jblok wrote: post #51

London has been doing a great job lately at improving cycle infrastructure. There is a new concept of a "cycle superhighway" - sometimes that means a segregated bike path, like CS3 that goes from The Tower Of London, straight through to Westminster, sometimes it is paint on the ground. However it is much clearer to motorists as they paint the entire line bright blue. What I've noticed too is you get increasing return…

In SF there are plenty of bike lanes that are painted a vivid green (the whole lane, with a white lane marker line). I think it's fantastic. It's really very difficult to not notice that the bike lane exists.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#64

Post by flippyhead »

eecc wrote: post #6

That's how bicycles came to the Netherlands. Many think bikes always existed since the beginning of time but that's not true: during the rebuild in the immediate post-war cities were designed around car-based transportation. Only after a couple decades, raised awareness about street safety , accidents causing death of children, the first Oil-shock and general tree-hugging '60s eco-friendliness did the country evolve…

> anyone can do the same, anywhere.

I love Holland and I love biking but you guys have it easy compared to, say, Seattle where I live part-time. The hills make it a very different problem. I bike a lot but will still drive/uber when I can't deal with being crazy sweaty for a meeting or something.

I was very disappointed when they decided NOT to install electric bikes in the bike share system here. Electric bikes are the only way you'll get the ridership numbers needed in a place with the topography of Seattle. I also suspect it rains more in Seattle than Holland.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#65

Post by pmontra »

zwp wrote: post #32
pmontra wrote: post #10

This in Milan, Italy three weeks ago: https://www.wired.it/lifestyle/mobilita/2017/06/01/milano-pi... It's on a narrow bridge quite dangerous for cyclists as cars tend to cut the turn to the left. After years of asking somebody decided to help themselves.

> i milanesi hanno percorso in media 18,6 miglia > in bici per andare al lavoro... > velocità media a Milano 14,8 miglia all’ora "The Milanese cyclist averages 18.7 miles per day to go to work... at an average speed of 14.8 mph". Is my translation okay? That seems improbable [time & distance, not speed]: the _average_ Milanese cyclo-commuter takes over an hour each way? Currently 36C/97F in Milan. Or is this per week…

That's so weird: nobody uses miles in Italy (or Europe, except the UK). I checked the article and the source is Strava Insight which probably defaults to miles. The journalist copied and pasted without converting the units into something readers would understand.

14.8 miles per hour is 23,68. I usually do 20 when I move in the city because I don't want to sweat and I don't see many bikers going faster than me. Maybe that's because only fast bikers use Strava and it skews distances and speeds.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#66

Post by coldpie »

sidlls wrote: post #62
coldpie wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty frustrating to be forced to go 10 MPH on a 30 MPH road. The roads also aren't designed for traffic to go 20 MPH slower than it ought to be, traffic starts to build up, causing more delays and frustration. I think we should be more accommodating of bikers, but asking them to share the road and be treated the same as cars is not the answer.

I'd have more sympathy for your position if auto drivers didn't seem to think they owned the road, margins, turn lanes and basically anything else that isn't a building. Shared space doesn't mean "shared with other auto drivers only."

Okay, so why doesn't it work? You can complain about drivers all you like, but fundamentally car traffic and bike traffic are incompatible. You can't expect a driver traveling at 30 MPH on a 30 MPH road to suddenly and calmly accept that they are now traveling 10 MPH because of the guy in front of them. Swap the biker for a driver going 20 MPH under the speed limit and you're looking at a road rage situation. Sharing the road is a terrible solution. It doesn't work.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#67

Post by mabcat »

ghaff wrote: post #22
awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

As someone who doesn't take a lot of taxis and related services while traveling, I've wondered about how many rides people take when I would just be inclined to walk. I actually don't bike on roads-wasn't in an environment where I really could growing up-but I usually just walk in many of the cities I travel to even if it's a mile or three.

There's a sweet spot for bicycle travel: journeys between 2km and 5km are too far for most people to walk, doable on a bike in most climates/terrains without breaking a sweat, and faster on a bike than a car when you account for parking time. Cycle infrastructure is about enabling that sweet spot at both ends, getting people out of cars as well as enabling non-car owners to travel around their whole neighbourhood.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#68

Post by coldpie »

landhar wrote: post #59
coldpie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so now they're undergoing a renovation for bikes. Good! Renovate them to accommodate bikes. That's great, do more of that. But "sharing the road" is a terrible solution, which leads to the honks and dangerous situations the OP described. Neither the biker nor the drivers in the OP's post are in the wrong. It's just a really terrible situation that really should not happen.

> Neither the biker nor the driver in the OP's post are in the wrong In the OP's situation, the drivers that exhibit aggressive and dangerous behavior are clearly in the wrong. You could argue that their frustration is understandable, but their behavior is certainly wrong.

So is the guy who steals an unlocked bike. What are you going to do? You're going to not create that situation in the first place. You're going to use a bike lock. "Share the road" is a dumb solution, as evidenced by the OP. It simply does not work. Find another solution.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#69

Post by bryanlarsen »

flippyhead wrote: post #64
eecc wrote: post #6

That's how bicycles came to the Netherlands. Many think bikes always existed since the beginning of time but that's not true: during the rebuild in the immediate post-war cities were designed around car-based transportation. Only after a couple decades, raised awareness about street safety , accidents causing death of children, the first Oil-shock and general tree-hugging '60s eco-friendliness did the country evolve…

> anyone can do the same, anywhere. I love Holland and I love biking but you guys have it easy compared to, say, Seattle where I live part-time. The hills make it a very different problem. I bike a lot but will still drive/uber when I can't deal with being crazy sweaty for a meeting or something. I was very disappointed when they decided NOT to install electric bikes in the bike share system here. Electric bikes are…

AFAICT Seattle has fewer hills than Aarhus, Denmark. 47% of commutes in Aarhus are done by bicycle.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#70

Post by ygra »

pmontra wrote: post #10

This in Milan, Italy three weeks ago: https://www.wired.it/lifestyle/mobilita/2017/06/01/milano-pi... It's on a narrow bridge quite dangerous for cyclists as cars tend to cut the turn to the left. After years of asking somebody decided to help themselves.

I'm a bit confused there, though. The signage clearly marks this as a road you're not allowed to enter from that side, regardless of vehicle and forbidden for pedestrians. The guerilla bike lane thus is not supported by the existing signage and if behaviour prior to this matched what the lane now codifies, then it's worrisome as well.

As a cyclist, I'm all for making cycling safer, but breaking road laws to achieve that goal is not the right way. That's a one-way street, clearly marked as not a sidewalk and definitely not a bike lane against the one-way street direction. Guerilla bike lane or not, imho it's a stupid and dangerous idea to walk or cycle there, especially in that direction.

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