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Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

bicycletimesmag.com

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Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#41

Post by Nav_Panel »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #34
rorykoehler wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always infuriated me. Cyclists are treated like second class citizens even when designing cycling infrastructure. Then we get yelled at for riding on the road. On top of this often the cycling lanes on the edge of main roads also double up as puncture hazards making it risky to use them.

Why? It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap. Forklifts yield to service trucks. Service trucks yield to heavy equipment. Heavy equipment yields to bigger heavy equipment. Big heavy equipment yields to trains. Trains yield to ships.

Cars yield to (much smaller) pedestrians, though. Clearly this model needs some work.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#42

Post by FussyZeus »

skrebbel wrote: post #27
michaelt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" Where I live, when segregated cycle tracks meet T junctions the layout is often like so: | C | ----------------------------------| a |-------- Cycles ◅ | r | ▷ ----------------------------------| s |-------- divider | | ----------------------------------…

This is solved in the Netherlands, pretty much universally, by making the cars coming in from the side wait for the bike lane as well: | C | -----------------------------------Δ Δ Δ---- Cycles r ----------------------------------- s --------- divider | | -----------------------------------Δ Δ Δ--------- Cars ------------------------------------------------- So if there's a bike lane, it counts as part of the car road…

This is how it's done in my area of the US, but I can tell you American drivers almost universally ignore where you're supposed to stop at a T junction, especially when turning right. It's maddening, multiple times I've had to leave the bike lane into traffic to get around a vehicle that isn't where it's supposed to be. I've never seen anyone get pulled over for this either because cycling isn't recognized as a "real" thing police need to take care of.

In short: The issue in the US anyway I think has a lot more to do with culture than with road safety and structure. If people gave a shit we'd make it work, but few here do (at least around where I live, northern midwest.)

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#43

Post by ghaff »

Nav_Panel wrote: post #41
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap. Forklifts yield to service trucks. Service trucks yield to heavy equipment. Heavy equipment yields to bigger heavy equipment. Big heavy equipment yields to trains. Trains yield to ships.

Cars yield to (much smaller) pedestrians, though. Clearly this model needs some work.

Depends where you are. The city in Asia where I am at the moment turning cars pretty clearly don't yield to pedestrians walk signs notwithstanding.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#44

Post by allendoerfer »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #34
rorykoehler wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always infuriated me. Cyclists are treated like second class citizens even when designing cycling infrastructure. Then we get yelled at for riding on the road. On top of this often the cycling lanes on the edge of main roads also double up as puncture hazards making it risky to use them.

Why? It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap. Forklifts yield to service trucks. Service trucks yield to heavy equipment. Heavy equipment yields to bigger heavy equipment. Big heavy equipment yields to trains. Trains yield to ships.

It is exactly the opposite in Germany. When you make turn on the road, pedestrians and cyclist have the right of way, even though they also will cross a road (the one you are turning into). It is the key principle in German traffic laws: You have to pay attention to what smaller and weaker vehicles are doing. Even when you are technically right, you can still be hold partially responsible for damages caused.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#45

Post by Tommyixi »

I'm a biker in Boston; I cycle 5 miles to work and 5 miles home on a daily basis. I think the city is doing an amazing job with what they are given but so many of the roads are just too narrow for dedicated bike lanes. Most streets have "sharrows" which is great but honestly what it comes down to is a lack of understanding on how to share the road. I'm constantly honked and shouted at for commanding full use of the driving lane when no bike lane is present, which is perfectly legal but often results in aggression from drivers. I've even had cars tailgate me and hit my back tire with their car.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#46

Post by throwawayjava »

zwp wrote: post #32
pmontra wrote: post #10

This in Milan, Italy three weeks ago: https://www.wired.it/lifestyle/mobilita/2017/06/01/milano-pi... It's on a narrow bridge quite dangerous for cyclists as cars tend to cut the turn to the left. After years of asking somebody decided to help themselves.

> i milanesi hanno percorso in media 18,6 miglia > in bici per andare al lavoro... > velocità media a Milano 14,8 miglia all’ora "The Milanese cyclist averages 18.7 miles per day to go to work... at an average speed of 14.8 mph". Is my translation okay? That seems improbable [time & distance, not speed]: the _average_ Milanese cyclo-commuter takes over an hour each way? Currently 36C/97F in Milan. Or is this per week…

The average speed is kinda fast but not insane, especially if most of the ride is on a stretch without many intersections (which you'd expect to be true of a 9 mile ride). I average around 15 mph in a mostly flat area where I stop every few blocks. TBF I'm probably riding a bit more aggressively than a typical Milanese bike commuter.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the average American bike commuter averages 15 mph. But I'd also expect the average American bike commuter to be much faster than the average Milanese bike commuter because in the USA most bike commuters are dedicated enthusiasts.

18.7 miles per day seems like a really high average, but is entirely believable. I used to do something close to that, and our summers were also hot.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#47

Post by saiya-jin »

Theodores wrote: post #13
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #9

One of the problems with more bicycle infrastructure I see is the current regulatory environment promotes the extremes only. A nice intermediate step would be if states would make moped registration less onerous. As it stands most states require a motorcycle license ($), insurance ($) and registration ($) for anything more than a bicycle with an engine kit. If more people rode those parking would be less of an issue…

Electric bicycles are here we do not need any more dangerous and noisy mopeds.

Fast(=powerful) electric bikes are much more dangerous than mopeds, since you don't hear them coming at all, which is a big issue especially for kids which always run around. They are super expensive compared to normal bikes, plus battery will fade away in couple of years. Just ask about honest opinion in some good bike shops, if they don't sell them/won't sell them to you, they will be honest and things I heard were not so favoring.

+ Depending on where you live, but my place has a fair amount of aggressive/outright crazy bikers that must have proper color blindness for red, because they just don't stop, even with plenty of people on pedestrian crossing, riding fast on pedestrian paths etc.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#48

Post by coldpie »

Tommyixi wrote: post #45

I'm a biker in Boston; I cycle 5 miles to work and 5 miles home on a daily basis. I think the city is doing an amazing job with what they are given but so many of the roads are just too narrow for dedicated bike lanes. Most streets have "sharrows" which is great but honestly what it comes down to is a lack of understanding on how to share the road. I'm constantly honked and shouted at for commanding full use of the d…

It is pretty frustrating to be forced to go 10 MPH on a 30 MPH road. The roads also aren't designed for traffic to go 20 MPH slower than it ought to be, traffic starts to build up, causing more delays and frustration. I think we should be more accommodating of bikers, but asking them to share the road and be treated the same as cars is not the answer.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#50

Post by kennydude »

They could have at least made a better effort to keep cyclists and cars separate.

In the photo a cyclist is still on the road which should not happen.

I also remember seeing a video where a guy got some kind of ticket for not cycling in a cycle lane, so he made a point by cycling only in the cycle lane and deliberately crashes into a police car because they were parked in the cycle lane...

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