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Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

bicycletimesmag.com

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Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#11

Post by TulliusCicero »

Easily the biggest problem in the US with biking is that the infrastructure is, nearly without exception, absolutely atrocious.

Nobody would accept having only 'painted walk lanes' on busy streets to get around, much less having them appear and disappear from the road seemingly at random, and yet that's the default state of bike lanes in nearly all US cities.

If biking had as much infrastructure as even walking -- meaning, physically protected lanes on most streets -- Americans would bike in enormous numbers.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#12

Post by mvitorino »

That hypothesis does not seem to apply to Lisbon, Portugal so far. We have now around 60km of dedicated bicycle paths in Lisbon (not just cycle lanes, but actual separated paths) all built in recent years (and plans to double that very soon).

But, simply put, they are barely used.

A few things are different in Lisbon from a lot of Northern Europe cities: it's very hilly and windy, it has temperatures close to 40 degrees in the summer (we have AC throughout the tube network) and in the winter, when it rains it really pours (not that drizzle that you get in London for example).

I may be too early to call it, but not all cities are alike and many people here are very skeptic about whether general adoption will ever be reached.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#13

Post by Theodores »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #9

One of the problems with more bicycle infrastructure I see is the current regulatory environment promotes the extremes only. A nice intermediate step would be if states would make moped registration less onerous. As it stands most states require a motorcycle license ($), insurance ($) and registration ($) for anything more than a bicycle with an engine kit. If more people rode those parking would be less of an issue…

Electric bicycles are here we do not need any more dangerous and noisy mopeds.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#14

Post by cpursley »

mvitorino wrote: post #12

That hypothesis does not seem to apply to Lisbon, Portugal so far. We have now around 60km of dedicated bicycle paths in Lisbon (not just cycle lanes, but actual separated paths) all built in recent years (and plans to double that very soon). But, simply put, they are barely used. A few things are different in Lisbon from a lot of Northern Europe cities: it's very hilly and windy, it has temperatures close to 40 degr…

I was just in Lisbon (lovely city). Hills aside, the metro is so good, it seems like a bike is just unnecessary (you have to store a bike, can't easily walk into shops, etc etc).

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#15

Post by mattnewport »

This doesn't really prove anything. My observations from Vancouver where a lot of time and money has been spent on bike lanes over the last few years: (I'm a non car owner, mostly pedestrian)

- Pilot projects are not representative of actual long term use. When Burrard bridge lost a footpath to a temporary cycle lane, as a regular pedestrian commuter I saw a brief spike in cycle traffic but then a big drop off again.

- Cycle lanes have a negative impact on both car and foot traffic. The Burrard cycle lanes increased the length of my commute on foot (footpaths were converted to cycle lanes that went empty much of the time) and disrupted car traffic causing delays to drivers.

- Expensive but poorly thought out physically separated bike lanes made intersections more dangerous for cyclists (who would go faster and slow down less for cars) and pedestrians (cyclists are silent and frequently ignore traffic lights)

- On street parking is frequently lost to new cycle lanes that frequently sit unused.

- There are a lot of 'fair weather cyclists' who only ride in good weather. Pedestrian traffic seems much less weather dependent.

A pilot project like this doesn't necessarily reflect actual long term usage and also ignores the many negative effects and costs associated with cycle lanes. Existing cities that grew up around mixed pedestrian and car traffic are not necessarily well suited to increased bike traffic. Bikes are dramatically more dangerous to both cyclists and pedestrians and take up disproportionate space relative to their contribution to transport options.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#16

Post by michaelt »

awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

  The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical
  barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered
  by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?"
Where I live, when segregated cycle tracks meet T junctions the layout is often like so:

                                    |  C  |
  ----------------------------------|  a  |--------  
  Cycles                          ◅ |  r  | ▷
  ----------------------------------|  s  |--------  
              divider               |     |
  -----------------------------------  Δ  ---------  
  Cars
  -------------------------------------------------
This means cyclists using the segregated path have to stop to give way to cars at every T junction - whereas cyclists who don't use the segregated path can maintain a constant speed, with joining cars giving way to them.

This leads to a demographic split in cyclist behaviour. For children and cyclists who aren't in a hurry, the segregated path is more friendly - but for 'serious' cyclists and people in a hurry, staying on the road makes more sense. Especially if there's a high density of T junctions, which isn't unusual in some urban areas.

Fortunately, in my country there aren't any laws that force cyclists into bike lanes, so it generally isn't a problem. But any urban planner who wants 100% of cyclists segregated from traffic is going to have a difficult time on their hands :)

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#17

Post by kristofferR »

cpursley wrote: post #14
mvitorino wrote: post #12

That hypothesis does not seem to apply to Lisbon, Portugal so far. We have now around 60km of dedicated bicycle paths in Lisbon (not just cycle lanes, but actual separated paths) all built in recent years (and plans to double that very soon). But, simply put, they are barely used. A few things are different in Lisbon from a lot of Northern Europe cities: it's very hilly and windy, it has temperatures close to 40 degr…

I was just in Lisbon (lovely city). Hills aside, the metro is so good, it seems like a bike is just unnecessary (you have to store a bike, can't easily walk into shops, etc etc).

That's a problem that can be solved easily just by having a good and cheap city bike system. Oslo is also really hilly and the weather isn't the best, but since the city bike system was revamped in 2016 biking has exploded here.

https://oslobysykkel.no/en

One thing I really like about the Oslo system is how startup-like it is, unlike a lot of other systems which feel arcane.

The apps are flawless (there's no card), the design profile is fantastic [1], the bikes are good and light and they do a good job of communication [2].

[1] http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_logo...

[2] https://www.facebook.com/bysykkeloslo/videos/144834624185549...

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#18

Post by jnty »

mattnewport wrote: post #15

This doesn't really prove anything. My observations from Vancouver where a lot of time and money has been spent on bike lanes over the last few years: (I'm a non car owner, mostly pedestrian) - Pilot projects are not representative of actual long term use. When Burrard bridge lost a footpath to a temporary cycle lane, as a regular pedestrian commuter I saw a brief spike in cycle traffic but then a big drop off again.…

Sounds like Vancouver is seeing fastest growing number of cycling trips in the world - do you think it's possible your experiences might not have been representative, or is there an effect you believe the stats aren't capturing?

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2016/02/eco-counter-cycling-index...

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#19

Post by bluejekyll »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #11

Easily the biggest problem in the US with biking is that the infrastructure is, nearly without exception, absolutely atrocious. Nobody would accept having only 'painted walk lanes' on busy streets to get around, much less having them appear and disappear from the road seemingly at random, and yet that's the default state of bike lanes in nearly all US cities. If biking had as much infrastructure as even walking -- me…

Bike lanes are a step in that direction. SF is starting to gain more protected bike lanes, it would definitely be nice to have more. The bike lane itself is a great initial way to measure bike interest.

Though honestly, nearly every street in the city should have at least a painted bike lane.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#20

Post by [deleted] »

michaelt wrote: post #16
awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" Where I live, when segregated cycle tracks meet T junctions the layout is often like so: | C | ----------------------------------| a |-------- Cycles ◅ | r | ▷ ----------------------------------| s |-------- divider | | ----------------------------------…

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