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Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

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Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#131

Post by bjl »

furioussloth wrote: post #123
bjl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those things could have done without systematically breaking the law at every turn. We shouldn't let corporations unilaterally decide which regulations they want to follow; if they think some laws are unfair they should work to change them through the democratic process like the rest of us.

Well I for one am glad to have these services at my disposal earlier than later. There would be way less innovation if everyone insisted on doing things right. Which laws are broken if it is good or bad is a subjective matter. Some people though those laws were unnecessary and backward. Some people thought otherwise. IMO people got better service and drivers got income because of that brash behavior.Breaking those la…

Allowing multinational corporations carte blanche to disregard any law they want is not a precedent I want our society to set. Even if it worked out in this case (which is very debatable), its a very slippery slope.

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#132

Post by furioussloth »

bjl wrote: post #131
furioussloth wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I for one am glad to have these services at my disposal earlier than later. There would be way less innovation if everyone insisted on doing things right. Which laws are broken if it is good or bad is a subjective matter. Some people though those laws were unnecessary and backward. Some people thought otherwise. IMO people got better service and drivers got income because of that brash behavior.Breaking those la…

Allowing multinational corporations carte blanche to disregard any law they want is not a precedent I want our society to set. Even if it worked out in this case (which is very debatable), its a very slippery slope.

yes lets just trust the administration instead. I am sure current administration has our best interest at heart /s

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#133

Post by toddball »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #77
pfarnsworth wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the entire Levandowski mess is completely Kalanick's fault. He was in completely control when he hired him, and presumably overincentivized him with a $250 million pay package. But that's a completely different issue than the original point. The point is that there was no conspiracy to steal Waymo's trade secrets. There was no conspiracy to use Waymo's technologies in Uber self-driving cars, who already…

Well, Kalanick told Levandowski to destroy the files immediately, and hired him knowing that he had taken the files from Waymo . I'm not quite sure what to make of that. He's so desperate to win at self-driving cars that he'll hire Levandowski, even though Levandowski has proven himself to be shady? He's "telling" Levandowski (with a wink) to destroy the files, really meaning "keep a copy at home, don't let it ever t…

> and hired him knowing that he had taken the files from Waymo.

Google also bought 510 Systems, which was the company he founded while still working at Google. Levandowski proved himself to be shady at Google and Google not only didn't admonish him, they rewarded him by buying his side project he created while employed by Google.

Clearly the man is talented enough that both companies decided it was worth overlooking his past actions. If what was reported today is true, Uber at the very least admonished Levandowski and told him to destroy what he had taken and that they had no interest in that material and not to bring it to Uber.

Near as I can tell, the discovery process thus far has demonstrated that none of that material made its way to Uber. The only documents found reported thus far were some documents on a single personal laptop of one engineer. If any of Levandowski's documents had made their way to Uber, the discovery process would have found at least something given the number of keywords Google requested be searched for and the number of files searched.

Right now, the only thing that appears in doubt here is if he ever actually destroyed documents. I agree he's likely culpable, but I still don't see any reason for Uber to be culpable of anything more than knowingly hiring someone with a past history of being unscrupulous, that Google also employed knowing full well he actively unscrupulous in their employ.

It would be mighty ironic if Google was now sued by shareholders for negligence in how it had previously handled Levandowski.

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#134

Post by bjl »

furioussloth wrote: post #132
bjl wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing multinational corporations carte blanche to disregard any law they want is not a precedent I want our society to set. Even if it worked out in this case (which is very debatable), its a very slippery slope.

yes lets just trust the administration instead. I am sure current administration has our best interest at heart /s

The government is at least nominally controlled by the people. That's a helluva lot better than dictatorship by corporation.

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#135

Post by sillysaurus3 »

vec wrote: post #100
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The myth that you can build a billion-dollar business without some shady dealings needs to die. Startups are usually faced with hard choices if they want to survive. Pretending like Kalanick himself endorsed sexual harassment is ridiculous. We don't know whether he knew, how much he knew, or how involved he was. All evidence points to "the trail of information stopped at HR." I think we like to pretend that startups…

Of course the perfect is the enemy of the good, in this as in all things. That said, if you don't feel that you can start a business and run it both legally and ethically, maybe consider not starting a business. Nobody forced Travis Kalanick to found a company that couldn't work in the then-extant regulatory structure. Nobody forced him to work around the problem by just flat out ignoring the law and hoping he could…

On the surface, this is a reasonable critique. But it conflates ethics with the law.

It's helpful to remember that we don't have a justice system. We have a legal system. That's a very important distinction, and it's why we see the law co-evolve with society.

If you're arguing that under no circumstances is it ethical to found a company that doesn't toe the letter of the law, then you've got a tough case. Are you sure it's ethical that you're not allowed to offer someone a ride in exchange for money?

This extends to other companies. Airbnb is a prime example. Aside from a few corner cases (one of the worst being SF), Airbnb has been a positive influence. And it never would've happened if they had been too shy to act.

You can argue it's unethical, but meanwhile the world rolls on. It's much more effective to accept it and to dominate the game. But you won't if you refuse to play.

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#136

Post by parthdesai »

bogomipz wrote: post #31
parthdesai wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only the people in tech who know about Uber's problems. All of my friends who aren't in tech don't know anything about Uber's problems and use it regularly. Heck i still use it if the surge is below 1.5 since it's either Uber or Taxi.

>"It's only the people in tech who know about Uber's problems." No it's anyone who reads the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or watches Bloomberg too. I'm pretty sure that includes much more than techies. Uber has been featured on the front page of both of those newspapers and not just recently. >"All of my friends who aren't in tech don't know anything about Uber's problems and use it regularly" That's pur…

>No it's anyone who reads the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or watches Bloomberg too. I'm pretty sure that includes much more than techies. Uber has been featured on the front page of both of those newspapers and not just recently.

Uber CEO being fired or Waymo law suit is a bigger story and a lot more people know about it. But i don't think people will stop using uber because of those two stories. Compare that to sexual harassment being rampant in Uber which could cause a lot more people to not use Uber out of ethics.

>That's purely anecdotal.

I didn't say otherwise.

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#137

Post by zeroxfe »

furioussloth wrote: post #66
digitalzombie wrote: post #62

I'm glad this is happening to Uber. I do not want such a company to thrive with these type of practices. I thought they were going to win against Lyft with all these shady practices. And so I just shrug it off and chalk it up for those dirty companies stepping on people. Glad that the public have been more empathic and a conscious on these disgusting practices. Gives me hope for the future in term of businesses and h…

I do not condone all the dirty practices but i always find it amusing how lyft gets a good guy trophy. Well without Uber being there doing the dirty work of fighting regulations Lyft would not exist. I would not want Lyft to go away because it is nice to have that option and competition but I would not wish for Uber to go down after all the major changes they did in last few months. Many companies get away with doing…

> Many companies get away with doing far worse.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that Uber should get away with it.

> Uber more than redeemed themself.

Umm... how?

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#138

Post by _jal »

toddball wrote: post #133
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Kalanick told Levandowski to destroy the files immediately, and hired him knowing that he had taken the files from Waymo . I'm not quite sure what to make of that. He's so desperate to win at self-driving cars that he'll hire Levandowski, even though Levandowski has proven himself to be shady? He's "telling" Levandowski (with a wink) to destroy the files, really meaning "keep a copy at home, don't let it ever t…

> and hired him knowing that he had taken the files from Waymo. Google also bought 510 Systems, which was the company he founded while still working at Google. Levandowski proved himself to be shady at Google and Google not only didn't admonish him, they rewarded him by buying his side project he created while employed by Google. Clearly the man is talented enough that both companies decided it was worth overlooking…

> Levandowski proved himself to be shady at Google

I've missed this part. Have a pointer?

In any case, any shady behavior while at Google may be colorable noise in the PR battle, but is unlikely to have any relevance in court.

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#139

Post by _jal »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #74
_jal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know that there was no conspiracy, and neither do you unless you have nonpublic information. We have a very narrow slice of information that has been filtered through the legal process. Your particular slant on the story is great, enjoy. At least you've dropped the cheap media bashing; that was my primary point.

You're no longer making any sense. I still believe the media is terribly biased. And this is Waymo's own testimony that Kalanick asked to destroy the documents once he found out about them. How could there be a conspiracy?

I'm done. This is a pointless discussion. I will answer the question:

> How could there be a conspiracy?

You're posting in multiple threads in this discussion; you couldn't have missed that many people in this thread have pointed out the obvious; it could be a wink and nod. "Honey, don't steal any jewelry from your job at PreciousGemCo. That would be wrong. You know how I do love my diamonds..."

If you're unable to imagine other scenarios that fit the very few facts we have,

(1) perhaps you can talk to a CPA, hacker, attorney, con-man, or someone else who is familiar with fraud that's more subtle than Three Card Monte. And,

(2) I'd strongly suggest for your own good that you have someone you trust review any contracts you might want to sign.

Re: Waymo filing says Travis Kalanick knew engineer had Google info

#140

Post by daveFNbuck »

Alex3917 wrote: post #105
daveFNbuck wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble finding any source for this that links to any sources. Do you have evidence this actually happened?

http://earthjustice.org/news/press/2017/trump-s-epa-consider... Or you can just google trump EPA mercury and take your pick of sources.

I don't see anywhere in this article or in the Google search claiming that the EPA made a statement that mercury is no longer harmful or that it's safe for children.
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