How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#151

Post by ohsnapman » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 5:04 PM UTC

redm wrote: post #145

burkaman wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your opinion of stuff like the Hell app, or intentionally sabotaging competitors? https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/24/uber-hell-lawsuit/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-re...

That's tough to say, I don't know enough about the entire situation. I think it's safe to say that Lyft and Uber wherein a street fight and were both doing "questionable" things to each other. It reminds me of Thomas Edison sabotaging Tesla, and yet, here we are, on A/C. [1] [1] http://mentalfloss.com/article/30140/acdc-tesla%E2%80%93edis...

> It reminds me of Thomas Edison sabotaging Tesla, and yet, here we are, on A/C.

Dangerous position to take. This is pretty much saying that the ends justify the means, given enough time. That because winners write history, that in the moment, doing whatever it takes to win is more important than operating ethically.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#152

Post by ohsnapman » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 5:06 PM UTC

redm wrote: post #138

Just a slightly different perspective from the mob. "The culture at Uber is Toxic." I keep hearing this. Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic. I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company. As for the rest of the events, such as Greyball, etc. I don't consider that toxic, I co…

> I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company.

I'm not really sure this is a good measure of the toxicity of a company's culture, since it's not even close to a fair sampling of the people there.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#153

Post by burkaman » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

redm wrote: post #149

burkaman wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't find any example of similar actions by Lyft, but I could have missed something. Also, it's not just Lyft: https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/black-car-competitor-accus... Regardless of whether anyone else did it, do you think these are examples of Uber making the world a better place and breaking rules that shouldn't exist?

"Regardless of whether anyone else did it, do you think these are examples of Uber making the world a better place and breaking rules that shouldn't exist?" You're not really asking a question, you know that anti-competitive behavior is not making the world a better place, it's fighting for market share and dominance. Anti-competitive behavior is often rewarded in our society with higher profits, valuations, and mark…

Those are all good examples, and I think a pattern of that type of behavior is good evidence of a "toxic culture". That's what people are talking about, not just the recent sexual harassment stories. I'm pointing this stuff out because you said in your comment that you'd never heard of any bad behavior at Uber besides sexual harassment. In fact there's a consistent pattern of bad decisions made by people throughout the organization, and that's why people talk about a toxic culture.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#154

Post by phire » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #141

Marazan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What economies of scale? Uber distribute the car maintenance costs onto the drivers - making it the most inefficient way to have a fleet of cars. The Uber model is anti-econonmy-of-scale. It is a non scalable human wave approach.

I suppose the words "pyramid scheme" has been mentioned before... hah, you gotta love the way technology does it, shall we call it Pyramid Scheme 2.0? Promise everyone profits, investors and workers alike, but scam the workers, and maybe there'll be profit for the investors, somewhere in the future.

It's more like a Ponzi scheme than a Pyramid scheme.

For investors, the promise of profitability is continually just over the horizon, as long as you keep investing money. Everyone can see the company is potentially very profitable, but nobody can see a route there.

Though for the drivers, it looks a lot like a multi-level marketing scheme. Be your own boss, choose your own hours, work hard and you will be rich.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#155

Post by erikpukinskis » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 7:33 PM UTC

redm wrote: post #138

Just a slightly different perspective from the mob. "The culture at Uber is Toxic." I keep hearing this. Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic. I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company. As for the rest of the events, such as Greyball, etc. I don't consider that toxic, I co…

Every toxic environment needs a non-toxic superstructure for the henchmen to work in, live in, so they can feel good about themselves and regard criticism as contrary to appearances.

Perhaps you and your friends live inside that space. The people who regard the purported toxic environment as toxic are either not allowed in that space, or are conditioned to hide their beliefs.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#156

Post by shostack » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 7:53 PM UTC

blazespin wrote: post #28

Allvitende wrote: post #19

While I do agree that the culture at Uber was toxic and ultimately Travis was to blame for that, on a human level I do feel for the guy. At the end of the day, he just lost his mother and now also his life's work for the foreseeable future. And damn that must suck.

I feel bad about his mom, but losing the CEO? No, and in fact, Travis might be secretly glad. Anyone who is serious about this sort of thing must understand the reality of the control versus wealth founder's dilemma from day one. By giving up, he may be getting more as Uber becomes successful in a way he could not make it. His skill set, getting it to where it was, was critical and he just wasn't the right guy to get…

This is a really important point. The people that get a company from point A to point B are not always the people to get it from B to C, and rarely the people that get it beyond that.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#157

Post by shostack » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 7:56 PM UTC

treyfitty wrote: post #117

The article doesn't make it clear what the letter said, other than "A group of us think you should step down. Do it." What could have possibly been in the letter that made Travis step down?

That's what I wish I could read more about. The behind the curtain conversations, emails, etc. Those rarely come up light but are an important part of how business gets done at that level.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#158

Post by kafkaesq » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

redm wrote: post #138

Just a slightly different perspective from the mob. "The culture at Uber is Toxic." I keep hearing this. Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic. I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company. As for the rest of the events, such as Greyball, etc. I don't consider that toxic, I co…

Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic.

You can bury your head in the sand (and think back on all the fun you had at those boozy meetups), but the brunt of evidence now made public so far - and ultimately, the recent actions of Uber's board itself - clearly indicates otherwise, this issue.

You don't just publicly fire 20 people - and ultimately, the CEO himself - for nothing, after all.

That's how the world changes, people pushing hard and breaking the rules when they know the rules are wrong.

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, man, and drink it deep.

There's plenty more where it came from.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#159

Post by bostik » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 8:32 PM UTC

burkaman wrote: post #143

redm wrote: post #138

Just a slightly different perspective from the mob. "The culture at Uber is Toxic." I keep hearing this. Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic. I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company. As for the rest of the events, such as Greyball, etc. I don't consider that toxic, I co…

What's your opinion of stuff like the Hell app, or intentionally sabotaging competitors? https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/24/uber-hell-lawsuit/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-re...

I'm taking the cynical view.

> intentionally sabotaging competitors?

This only underscores that Uber is a fairly large company. The only difference with every other large company is that not only did Uber get caught, they also sported a festering PR problem which worked as an amplifier.

Re: How Uber Backers Orchestrated Kalanick’s Ouster as CEO

#160

Post by burkaman » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 8:55 PM UTC

bostik wrote: post #159

burkaman wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your opinion of stuff like the Hell app, or intentionally sabotaging competitors? https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/24/uber-hell-lawsuit/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-re...

I'm taking the cynical view. > intentionally sabotaging competitors? This only underscores that Uber is a fairly large company. The only difference with every other large company is that not only did Uber get caught, they also sported a festering PR problem which worked as an amplifier.

I think that's irrelevant to the point being made. If every large company has a pattern of harmful behavior comparable to Uber's, then every large company has a toxic culture. Or if you prefer, every large company is a product of and contributor to a larger toxic culture.

I agree that unusually bad PR has amplified the consequences, but again that's irrelevant to examining the culture of the company.