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Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

nytimes.com

821–830 of 1001 posts

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#821

Should we believe men too when they're victimised by women, or is this a one way deal? What if it's a man and a woman accusing each other, or two men or two women. What if the dude is a historically oppressed minority?

> or is this a one way deal? FFS, dude. Men hold the vast majority of power in our society. No cards are stacked against them. No old fashioned norms are still levied on them everytime a woman speaks to them. They aren't constantly reminded by our culture to be gentlemen or look handsome or bring home the bacon or do anything they don't want to. To say "think of the men!" here is either willfully ignorant or just bei…

I am extremely pro feminist, but I believe this particular tactic is one of feminists most self destructive anti-patterns.

It's one thing to say women have substantially more cards stacked against them on average. But it's another to say men have no cards stacked against them.

Your position is particularly harmful to feminist aims, because one of the core feminist teachings that we need to get through is this:

Don't assume a woman is a certain way because of stereotypes. Between group differences are smaller than within group differences.

Women can be less sporty than men on average, while still almost half of women are more athletic than the average man.

Similarly, women can have more cards stacked against them on average, while still nearly half of men have more cards stacked against them than the average woman.

The place we need to get to, which I believe intersectional feminism advocates, is to understand each person and situation individually, and consider that there are always many axes of oppression operation simultaneously.

To address your assertion directly: that a male victim of sexual harassment has no cards against him, consider this:

The flip side of "boys will be boys", a meme used to let rapists go unpunished, is "boys must be boys", a meme that men always want sex and therefore if he had a drunken hookup he must have wanted it. This goes far beyond the less accepted (though still frighteningly effective) meme of "she was drunk so she must have wanted it". Women are not presumed to want sex all the time.

I consider that a card stacked against men. We have precious little shared framework for thinking and talking about the times we don't want sex. It's not equivalent to the deck of cards that is patriarchy, but it's a card.

I think feminism will profit greatly from taking a stance on how people should be treated better, rather your stance, which is a stance on which people should be treated better (women).

I still believe WATM is usually a derailing technique used to distract from discussions of women's rights, I just don't believe that in the current climate it benefits the feminist movement to respond to them as such. It doesn't take much effort to say "sure, men too" and doing so reinforces other key feminist rhetoric.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#822
post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber is the largest player by far, so they are an easy target for frustrations and for incumbents. "Uber" is almost a generic term for a iPhone hailable vehicle. Generally, there is market competition for drivers. For example, Lyft for those drivers who are unhappy with Uber. You have stated that in your city, São Paulo, there are 3 good companies. If one company mistreats drivers, they would go to a competing firm a…

That's why I trust capitalism. Its dynamics allowed Uber to create a market, but also keep it in check for bad practices.

"Keep it in check"

By allowing it to willfully break laws in dozens of countries, contributing to lowering standards of living and high stress at work, tracking users at all times, having a hostile workplace, then becoming the most important provider of such services in the world?

Yeah, that's totally capitalism doing its work, and not the painfully obvious "throw VC money at it until it works" scheme, right

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#823

Much of the resistance to Uber (such as laws that were broken, protests) were from entrenched interests. At least where I live in NYC, Uber was dramatically improving customer value while providing innovations that reduced greenhouse gas. It provided completion for the entrenched Yellow Cab monopoly with its very high rates. Sometimes Uber would have higher rates but then you could take a Yellow Cab instead. The Yell…

Don't imagine for one second that Uber wouldn't jack up prices in a heartbeat if they were the sole monopoly in NYC just like Yellow Cab was. Uber's great in that they give competition to an entrenched monopoly of Yellow Cab. But put Uber in a monopoly position anywhere and you'll see the rates skyrocket. There needs to be a number of forces in the ride sharing market to keep prices down.

I completely agree and as things are, Uber's prices are far higher in NYC than say, compared with Chicago because the Yellow Cabs here are so expensive compared with those from Chicago.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#824
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but I think that's exactly how/why Uber's investors were able to convince Kalanick to step down. Uber may or may not take over the world at some point, but Uber needs another round of investment in the next 18 months just to survive. If the existing investors refused to play ball, they could kill the next round, which really would kill Uber. And here's another important moral of this story for founders:…

Can you explain how these large companies operate, explained like I'm a golden retriever? How does a company so big not make a profit/could possibly go bankrupt? My current understanding is companies either focus on growth (at a loss) or choose to focus on profit (with the risk of competition overtaking them or decay over time). But lets say they go bankrupt in 1 year, couldn't they just switch to "profit mode"? If t…

Here boy! Sit. Siiit. Sit!

Stay. Wait... wait.... go fetch!

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you honestly believe that there aren't difficult and often unrealistic social pressures put on men?

Generally speaking, as a group, yes -- especially when compared to the social pressures put on women. Yes, that's changing, but we still have a way to go. Happy to hear any difficult and unrealistic social pressures you think we regularly face today.

Now you sound willfully ignorant too.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#826

Much of the resistance to Uber (such as laws that were broken, protests) were from entrenched interests. At least where I live in NYC, Uber was dramatically improving customer value while providing innovations that reduced greenhouse gas. It provided completion for the entrenched Yellow Cab monopoly with its very high rates. Sometimes Uber would have higher rates but then you could take a Yellow Cab instead. The Yell…

I don't get the greenhouse gas savings.

If anything, Uber is generating greenhouse gas. People who didn't have the convince of Uber; might have walked, took public transpiration, biked, or planned their errands/drinking better?

And I have a weird feeling, even leasing a cab for $125/shift, is better than providing a late model, four door Uber approved vechicle on your dime.

It's Uber's vechicle requirement that always rubbed me the wrong way. Those Uber drivers are not independant contractors.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#827
post #750

Much of the resistance to Uber (such as laws that were broken, protests) were from entrenched interests. At least where I live in NYC, Uber was dramatically improving customer value while providing innovations that reduced greenhouse gas. It provided completion for the entrenched Yellow Cab monopoly with its very high rates. Sometimes Uber would have higher rates but then you could take a Yellow Cab instead. The Yell…

don't really care, Uber's behavior as a company is such that I'd rather see lyft succeed. Those positives will be brought about regardless of who it is, so lets make sure it isn't a company who acts as egregiously bad as Uber.

Uber has better quality service from my experience. I still remember, Sat AM in NYC, and Lyft wanted to charge surge pricing when the city is far quieter than during a weekday. Uber did not charge surge pricing on a Saturday morning!

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, real shame that the unmitigated sexual harassment got in the way of their complete avoidance of regulations

The regulations by and large were simply there to protect incumbents that wanted to keep out competition which offered higher customer value (by offering lower cost, more responsive, less greenhouse gas) service. Unlike AirBnB which does break NY City and NY State laws, Uber has been following regulations that are imposed by the NYC Taxi & Limousine commission (e.g., screening drivers, etc.).

> less greenhouse gas

An estimated 160.000 cars driving for Uber in the US, many of which doing so as a full time job will pollute less. Right. Riiiiight.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#829

Much of the resistance to Uber (such as laws that were broken, protests) were from entrenched interests. At least where I live in NYC, Uber was dramatically improving customer value while providing innovations that reduced greenhouse gas. It provided completion for the entrenched Yellow Cab monopoly with its very high rates. Sometimes Uber would have higher rates but then you could take a Yellow Cab instead. The Yell…

Uber/Lyft have NOT reduced greenhouse gas. Not a bit. Those rides are still being taken, and inbetween rides, those cars are driving around.

"while not forcing drivers to pay excessing leasing fees for vehicles."

In the same way someone who owed money to the company store didn't have to start doing that, but due to predatory terms, once they did, things get pretty out of hand. And since Uber/Lyft are the ones who dictate those terms, they are to blame.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#830
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's quite fair. He absolutely deserves a lot of criticism for the things that happened under his watch as Uber CEO, but he did create a giant company that has the highest(?) valuation of any SV startup. He deserves some respect and compliments for that.

> but he did create a giant company that has the highest(?) valuation of any SV startup. He deserves some respect and compliments for that. The only people that benefited from his achivement were the investors. Considering where Uber stands at the moment they might not ever see a return on that. If creating value gives you some sort of moral pass then we shouldn't have any sort of issues with epipens being more expen…

If you prefer to read what I posted that way, then that's your prerogative. I am simply stating that this isn't some kind of zero sum game or that it's black and white. I even stated (which you conveniently left out) that he does deserve criticism for the issues that happened during his tenure, and I believe he deserves a lot.
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