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Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

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Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#51

Post by Oletros »

throwawaymanbot wrote: post #42

If Wal-Mart decrees this, put up or shut up. Welcome to business. CEO Diktats about using not using competitor services for anything whatsoever, are as old as Microsoft. Wal-mart is not in the cloud business, so I can only wonder if, as others have commented, it is about data security in AWS domain, since Wal-Mart's main competitor is Amazon. We know what Google and Facebook get up to with peoples data, why would Ama…

> We know what Google and Facebook get up to with peoples data, why would Amazon not analyze or try similar to their customers? To have all that technical capability and not be curious about stuff would be a waste.

Do Google, Amazon or Microsoft look at the data of their cloud offer clients?

I bet that if they do and it is know their business would go to hell

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#52

Post by vidarh »

chriswarbo wrote: post #19
midnitewarrior wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great source of reviews, incredible convenience, massive selection of goods, huge value for membership (Amazon Instant Video included), free 2-day delivery, reasonable pricing, consumer-friendly customer service, yes, it's a nightmare? This is one of those things where you are going to have to explain to consumers why they should be outraged in order for them to realize how awful it is. By most measures, Amazon is on…

> huge value for membership (Amazon Instant Video included) Forcing customers to support their unwanted video service by bundling it with the next-day shipping service was a completely transparent move, and every Amazon customer I know a) saw straight through it, b) doesn't use it and c) would like to stop paying for it.

The vast majority of time we spend watching TV is via a FireTV box, with a good split between Amazons own video service, the Netflix app (which is very well integrated - Netflix results show up in the normal FireTV search results), and the BBC iPlayer app. With the addition of additional "channel" subscriptions I suspect we'll use it more and more.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#53

Post by Spooky23 »

snowwolf wrote: post #17

Is this because they actively want to discourage any revenue going Amazon's way from Wal-Mart related business activities, or because they don't trust Amazon not to look at the data hosted on their platform? If the latter, then I think that's just extreme paranoia. If there was ANY evidence of Amazon doing that it would destroy everyones trust in AWS and I suspect people wouldn't be able to move away fast enough (Whi…

I wouldn't call it extreme paranoia. Amazon has a pretty well established history of undermining business partners on the merchant side... why not competitors on the cloud side?

Competitive intelligence is a thing. For all you know, Proctor and Gamble has Amazon consultants in house, and those folks may well have access to information sensitive to WalMart.

Be careful about assuming rationality from the actors here. Lots of egos and competive people are at play here, and people will do incredibly dumb things to win.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#54

Post by mdasen »

snowwolf wrote: post #17

Is this because they actively want to discourage any revenue going Amazon's way from Wal-Mart related business activities, or because they don't trust Amazon not to look at the data hosted on their platform? If the latter, then I think that's just extreme paranoia. If there was ANY evidence of Amazon doing that it would destroy everyones trust in AWS and I suspect people wouldn't be able to move away fast enough (Whi…

I think it's harsh to call it extreme paranoia. I've heard that one of the reasons Amazon won't use Slack for its chat is because it isn't self-hosted. I'm sure many major companies won't use Gmail. I don't think Slack or Google have done anything that suggests they'd mine their platforms for corporate espionage. Slack isn't even in the same industry as Amazon. Is Amazon paranoid?

According to the article, Walmart seems hesitant to support so much profit running to Amazon. While Amazon's retail business runs on razor thin margins, their cloud business reaps enormous profits. That means that the cloud business is helping Amazon put a lot of pressure on Walmart. Without it, would they be able to eat such thin to negative margins in the retail business or would they need to raise prices and make Walmart's offerings look better for consumers?

In the article, they note that AWS was 89% of Amazon's operating income. It's likely that Amazon's thin retail margins would bother investors if AWS wasn't raking in money. It's also likely that AWS margins are helping Amazon be more aggressive in retail.

Still, I don't think it would be more paranoid than most companies to avoid using a competitor's infrastructure at that size. Amazon will prefer self-hosing email rather than using Gmail regardless of assurances.

It's not even just about trusting that the competitor wouldn't actively decide to peek into your data. It's trusting that no one in that company would take a peek even though that the competitive data could give them a huge career boost. Let's say Amazon hosts their email with Gmail. You're a struggling middle-manager at Google Cloud who has seen some failures. Maybe peek at Amazon's email and see what their cloud plans might be and when you're able to get out in front of Amazon you amaze your colleagues - maybe you have to bribe someone with access.* It's not just trusting that Google doesn't want to do this.

*Now, I'm sure that Google has safeguards to make sure that employees can't do this (or it's at least hard), but the point is that you have to trust 1) the company, 2) the employees, and 3) procedures the company has put in place to prevent nefarious data access.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#55

Post by Spooky23 »

Touche wrote: post #45
firebird84 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same token, if I were in Amazon's position, if I were to use the data, I'd make sure nobody knew about it. However, I'd then be in the unenviable position of the Enigma codebreakers, attempting to use information without the enemy knowing I had it.

Why would they take the risk to find out information about a competitor that they are destroying?

Because knowing when and where a trainload of toilet paper is showing up at Walmart gives Amazon stronger bargaining power and ability to hurt Walmart.

If they can add a penny to the earnings or take one away from Walmart, that means bonus and stock $$$.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#56

Post by ocschwar »

ajarmst wrote: post #43

I know there's some complexity here, but let's just take a minute to marvel at the phenomena of Walmart complaining about another company's excessive dominance and potential to apply monopolistic power.

And then using its monopoly power to demand their suppliers take action against Amazon's monopoly power.

We really are slipping into the 1870s.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#57

Post by bsimpson »

athenot wrote: post #21
snowwolf wrote: post #17

Is this because they actively want to discourage any revenue going Amazon's way from Wal-Mart related business activities, or because they don't trust Amazon not to look at the data hosted on their platform? If the latter, then I think that's just extreme paranoia. If there was ANY evidence of Amazon doing that it would destroy everyones trust in AWS and I suspect people wouldn't be able to move away fast enough (Whi…

It's the first option. They are pretty intent on making sure their spending doesn't make its way back to their biggest competitor.

They certainly aren't the only major retailer to have an embargo against AWS because of Amazon's retail business.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#58

Post by snowwolf »

mdasen wrote: post #54
snowwolf wrote: post #17

Is this because they actively want to discourage any revenue going Amazon's way from Wal-Mart related business activities, or because they don't trust Amazon not to look at the data hosted on their platform? If the latter, then I think that's just extreme paranoia. If there was ANY evidence of Amazon doing that it would destroy everyones trust in AWS and I suspect people wouldn't be able to move away fast enough (Whi…

I think it's harsh to call it extreme paranoia. I've heard that one of the reasons Amazon won't use Slack for its chat is because it isn't self-hosted. I'm sure many major companies won't use Gmail. I don't think Slack or Google have done anything that suggests they'd mine their platforms for corporate espionage. Slack isn't even in the same industry as Amazon. Is Amazon paranoid? According to the article, Walmart se…

Isn't Slack on AWS? So effectively it is self-hosted for them :)

https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/slack/

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#59

Post by greggyb »

ocschwar wrote: post #56
ajarmst wrote: post #43

I know there's some complexity here, but let's just take a minute to marvel at the phenomena of Walmart complaining about another company's excessive dominance and potential to apply monopolistic power.

And then using its monopoly power to demand their suppliers take action against Amazon's monopoly power. We really are slipping into the 1870s.

I dunno, sounds almost like competition when you put it that way.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#60

Post by [deleted] »

throwawaymanbot wrote: post #42

If Wal-Mart decrees this, put up or shut up. Welcome to business. CEO Diktats about using not using competitor services for anything whatsoever, are as old as Microsoft. Wal-mart is not in the cloud business, so I can only wonder if, as others have commented, it is about data security in AWS domain, since Wal-Mart's main competitor is Amazon. We know what Google and Facebook get up to with peoples data, why would Ama…

[deleted]
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