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Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

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Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#121

Post by icebraining »

babyrainbow wrote: post #91
chc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't, though. The two tasks aren't very similar. It's a pithy put-down if you already don't like the idea of driving AI for other reasons, but nobody who's looking to objectively evaluate a technology for use in cars would say, "Hang on, let's first try to make it fold laundry."

> The two tasks aren't very similar.. Care to elaborate? Is folding laundry harder than driving? Doesn't both involve following visual cues and making corrections continuously based on that... >It's a pithy put-down if you already don't like the idea of driving AI for other reasons And your comment can be seen as a pithy attack on criticism of something you are overly enthusiastic about "for other reasons"... >nobody…

AI isn't a magic black box which one just plugs into stuff. There's some core mechanisms, but those are already well tried in many other applications. The hard part is developing a specific AI for driving.

Also, self-driving cars are not new, they're being developed for over thirty years, and they've logged millions of miles, many in public streets. The problems remaining will be in edge cases, and you definitively can't use your "folding AI" to test for that.

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#122

Post by tricolon »

pscsbs wrote: post #25
ccorda wrote: post #14

Seems to be taking Chris Lattner's place: https://twitter.com/clattner_llvm/status/877341760812232704

Wow! Tesla's official statement: "Chris just wasn’t the right fit for Tesla, and we’ve decided to make a change. We wish him the best." [0] Chris's response: "Turns out that Tesla isn't a good fit for me after all. I'm interested to hear about interesting roles for a seasoned engineering leader!" I don't think I've ever seen a tech company throw an employee under the bus so publicly. I wonder what Lattner did to warr…

How did they throw him under the bus? I interpret both of their statements to be neutral and honest.

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#123

Post by nandemo »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #85
pvg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are much better standard ways to phrase this and that's precisely why you almost never see it put that way. If for no other reason than that if hiring high-profile talent is something you need to do more than once, you don't want to be publicly suggesting it's somehow their fault when they leave.

I didn't take it this way at all. Why can't "he's not the right fit" mean exactly that? People can be brilliant but just not right fit the operating processes and culture at a company. I didn't really read anything negative into it from either side.

"we’ve decided to make a change" could easily be interpreted as "we've fired him".

In any case, judging by the reactions to his tweet it looks like he can pick and choose his next job.

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#124

Post by toephu2 »

SammoJ wrote: post #115
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

500k+ for someone with a lot of experience. 300k+ for a new hire ML/CV/NLP PhD with some relevant experience. 150k+ for a new hire ML/CV/NLP MS with little to no experience We were working with a very expert ML contractor that is doing 800k on his own from pop-up projects.

Are these numbers for real, and are these all Bay Area? I'm further North and pull no where near these numbers as an ML PhD with a lot of experience now in the tech industry. Have I goofed on all negotiations?

Probably real, yes only Bay Area, and no not the norm for ML. First of all only a few companies can pay that much (Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Netflix, etc) and these are outliers. The average ML engineer in the Bay Area does not make 500k/yr total comp.

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#125

Post by ethanhunt_ »

Animats wrote: post #117

What this really reflects is that Tesla has painted itself into a corner. They've shipped vehicles with a weak sensor suite that's claimed to be sufficient to support self-driving, leaving the software for later. Tesla, unlike everybody else who's serious, doesn't have a LIDAR. Now, it's "later", their software demos are about where Google was in 2010, and Tesla has a big problem. This is a really hard problem to do…

The difference between Tesla and Google is that Tesla actually has to ship these cars to customers right now. Wouldn't LIDAR double the cost of a Tesla right now?

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#126

Post by barrkel »

guelo wrote: post #34
ccorda wrote: post #14

Seems to be taking Chris Lattner's place: https://twitter.com/clattner_llvm/status/877341760812232704

It was always a weird fit having a compiler and programming language designer lead an AI team.

If the main source of problems was related to software architecture, it may have made sense. Academic AI people may be stronger on theory and end up with unmaintainable bridges. OTOH good architecture will be responsive to the fundamental underlying problems being solved, and that requires depth.

Compilers give a good base for transferring to things like databases, operating systems and IO heavy systems with lots of transforms / filters etc. They also ingrain a way of thinking that isn't native to most devs - writing code that generates code. Monads and other approaches to dynamically composing a computation - they come easy.

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#127

Post by gordon_freeman »

ethanhunt_ wrote: post #125
Animats wrote: post #117

What this really reflects is that Tesla has painted itself into a corner. They've shipped vehicles with a weak sensor suite that's claimed to be sufficient to support self-driving, leaving the software for later. Tesla, unlike everybody else who's serious, doesn't have a LIDAR. Now, it's "later", their software demos are about where Google was in 2010, and Tesla has a big problem. This is a really hard problem to do…

The difference between Tesla and Google is that Tesla actually has to ship these cars to customers right now . Wouldn't LIDAR double the cost of a Tesla right now?

Cost should not be an excuse at the expense of safety. Plain and simple.

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#128

Post by pkulak »

Animats wrote: post #117

What this really reflects is that Tesla has painted itself into a corner. They've shipped vehicles with a weak sensor suite that's claimed to be sufficient to support self-driving, leaving the software for later. Tesla, unlike everybody else who's serious, doesn't have a LIDAR. Now, it's "later", their software demos are about where Google was in 2010, and Tesla has a big problem. This is a really hard problem to do…

Sorry, I kinda tuned out when you mentioned lidar like it's some requirement for autonomous driving.

Lidar is AMAZING for giving press demos on sunny days. For the real world with rain, snow, leaves, plastic bags, etc? Useless.

The future is radar + cameras + a LOT of software blood, sweat and tears.

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#129

Post by chronic7ul »

toephu2 wrote: post #124
SammoJ wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these numbers for real, and are these all Bay Area? I'm further North and pull no where near these numbers as an ML PhD with a lot of experience now in the tech industry. Have I goofed on all negotiations?

Probably real, yes only Bay Area, and no not the norm for ML. First of all only a few companies can pay that much (Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Netflix, etc) and these are outliers. The average ML engineer in the Bay Area does not make 500k/yr total comp.

ML engineer is a programmer usually with a BS in CS, sometimes​ a MS. They are, in the end, only an engineer.

The AI scientists, those with work in computer vision, natural language, and audio, developing novel networks and training methods, make at least $500K/year. I've been a data scientist and the pay (and work content) was a joke. I switched to AI and damn, work makes you think and you get paid like a mid-range NBA star.

Re: Tesla hires Andrej Karpathy

#130

Post by sbierwagen »

ethanhunt_ wrote: post #125
Animats wrote: post #117

What this really reflects is that Tesla has painted itself into a corner. They've shipped vehicles with a weak sensor suite that's claimed to be sufficient to support self-driving, leaving the software for later. Tesla, unlike everybody else who's serious, doesn't have a LIDAR. Now, it's "later", their software demos are about where Google was in 2010, and Tesla has a big problem. This is a really hard problem to do…

The difference between Tesla and Google is that Tesla actually has to ship these cars to customers right now . Wouldn't LIDAR double the cost of a Tesla right now?

Classic engineering ethics problem. Management says they have to ship "right now", but you know that if you do, 1 in a 1000 customers will die. If you wait a couple years, that'll go down to 1 in 1000000, but your company might go bankrupt.

Engineers at Takata and in GM's ignition key department made one choice, Waymo seems to be making the other.

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