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A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

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Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#21

Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.

You don't think personal change represents any elevation from poverty? I think we certainly agree it can play a major role into poverty descent.

Just because it correlates with family doesn't mean personal change mythology isn't central. Different families have different mythologies.

The family stat is worthwhile to indicate that individual differentiation isn't a good explanatory factor, which is important to note.

To me the takeaway is that personal and family level interventions will be inadequate and neighborhood-level coordination is a good place to start.

Neighborhood mythology around personal change could very well be an important tool, I don't know.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#22
A long time ago I lived in baltimore, and there was a man who was "homeless" (he lived in the church he sat behind so he had a bed) who did just this.

You would give him a book of yours and he would give one back that he though you would enjoy... It was like having a one on one book club, with the greatest recommendations ever.

When I moved from baltimore I gave him the dozen or so books I had to add to his collection, and I always wonder what ever happened to him. I miss having a commute (walk actually) that included the strange bright spot of his presence.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#23

Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.

You don't think personal change represents any elevation from poverty? I think we certainly agree it can play a major role into poverty descent.

In 2014, "Vulnerable Populations" made up 80% of the poor in the USA. That essentially means children and the elderly.

On top of that, it's like another 7% of people that are in poverty that are fully employed!

http://www.demos.org/blog/10/23/15/2014-vulnerable-populatio...

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think personal change represents any elevation from poverty? I think we certainly agree it can play a major role into poverty descent.

I like to tell this to all the billions of people starving on the street around the world. Poverty is not structural. It's the individual's responsibility. Poor people just need some change from within to elevate themselves out the favelas of Rio, the Dharavi in India, the west side of Chicago. The cancer they get from drinking polluted water, the failure of their body after being exposed to the elements, their famil…

Who's saying it's their fault? The only thing I'm saying is that both descent into poverty and ascension from it can be due to personal action. Why do we have to choose 100% one cause or the other?

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dangerous to cast blanket statements like that. Some people end up in poverty by bad choices, sure. I don't think it's safe to assume that most "deserve" to be in poverty because of their choices. I think the more common scenario is mental illness develops > bad events happen due to mental illness and lack of treatment > job loss > more bad events/choices made out of desperation > repeat

And add in the fact, that until recently, insurance was available for only specific destitute or employees whom worked at jobs that provided insurance. And we have a party that wants to dismantle everything, including Social Security.

[deleted]

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#26
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the people who are currently homeless would have ended up, if they were born in tribal times?

I guess that the mentally ill would have suffered an extreme ostracism and violence from the population, but I also think that some of the conditions that lead to homelessness (drugs, alcohol, financial problems) are very recent.

Yeah, it depends on the type of mental illness, I think. Addiction is obviously harder without easy access to the chemical/activity.

But even for something like depression, many of the behaviors that are known to help would be more prevalent/mandatory in small, close-knit, more primitive societies. For example, you'd probably be getting tons of physical exercise, getting good sleep without artificial light, have frequent contact with a close family/social network, and probably have a pretty fixed routine that would be expected of all members of your cohort within the community. I'm not saying those activities cure depression, but speaking personally and for close friends, those activities make a huge difference.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#27

Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.

I don't believe that people "choose" to be poor, and there is an overwhelming societal component at play. But I can't say that the individual and their choices don't matter.

He admits he had problems with drugs, and that his life spiraled out of control. Do I think we should have treatment programs so it doesn't get this bad? Yes, of course. But some people don't think there's a problem, or need help until they hit bottom. It's part of their problem. Many times you can't commit someone to treatment against their will, at least in the US.

In this complicated world, where we view everything through our own subjective lens (consciousness), we have to admit that the individual has a role to play. How do they frame their reality? Are they giving up? Do they just feel "down on their luck"? Do they have that will? Why do some people fail in the face of adversity and others succeed? Are they just having "a good time" (with drugs)? Is there a mental illness at play? Understanding the problem is key to solving it.

If someone has completely given up on making their life better, then they are basically choosing to be poor, because their mind has accepted there is no other choice (no matter how slim the chance of success). They may not have any other choice but to be poor, but to stop improving basically ensures it. Some people lose the will to live, while others do not. (This isn't just people in extreme poverty either, but poor people marginalized by society, or people that become poor after being rich)

Let me just run a parallel to another public health crisis - obesity. I'm fat. Always have been. But the big difference to me is consciously making the choice I'm going to do what it takes to get rid of it. We all know that exercising and eating are in our control, they are choices we make. They might be painful choices, but we have them. But when we convince ourselves it's not possible ("it's genetic", "i'll never be thin", "i lack the strength", etc), we do give up, and that's basically losing the battle before you start. Sure, we could blame everyone who's putting bad things in food, and selling us french fries, but we also know that they wouldn't be selling them if they weren't so good. And that we all have a choice of how many times we eat them. Even if we only made healthy food, some people would still eat too much. There's always personal choice at play. If anything, society is the culmination of people's personal choices on a macro scale.

Do I think we need to help the poor and provide services? Of course. But we also need to give them hope. A lot of people don't know the government services that could help them, because they aren't looking, or have given up. Just getting services to people is a challenge, and relies on people wanting to accept help, and being able to accept those services to help get them back on their feet, and giving them the tools to stay on the up and up.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#28

This is a great story. But...someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long. Honestly, there are probably millions of people who pull themselves together like this - it's just they end up working regular jobs like maintenance work or burger flipping that aren't as inspirational. The problem with stories like this is they conflate two problems: (1) being down o…

someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long.

And capacity. Many people on the street have serious health problems or other obstacles to productivity. I lack neither intelligence nor a work ethic, but I do have health problems. I have been homeless 5.5 years, though I blog, do freelance work, etc.

Edit: You also need opportunity. Being homeless can be a huge barrier to opportunity, both in practical terms and due to stigma. People don't want to hire homeless people.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#29

This is a great story. But...someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long. Honestly, there are probably millions of people who pull themselves together like this - it's just they end up working regular jobs like maintenance work or burger flipping that aren't as inspirational. The problem with stories like this is they conflate two problems: (1) being down o…

Problem (3) these stories don't scale.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#30

This is a great story. But...someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long. Honestly, there are probably millions of people who pull themselves together like this - it's just they end up working regular jobs like maintenance work or burger flipping that aren't as inspirational. The problem with stories like this is they conflate two problems: (1) being down o…

This is a critical point, thanks for making it. The mythology that all failure is a function of bad work ethic, etc., is a huge barrier to meaningful progress on poverty alleviation.

Anyone interested in reading more on this topic, I rec. this book. It's about people who are near-homeless, not fully homeless, but it's one of the best things I've read on the topic. The author lived with the subjects for several years & does a superlative job of telling their story in that sort of explanatory way (not judgmental or absolving) that HN readers seem to appreciate.

https://www.amazon.com/Evicted-Poverty-Profit-American-City/...

(excerpt of the book here: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/08/forced-out)

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