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A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

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Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#11

Post by nxsynonym »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #6
BluishLight wrote: post #3

Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.

You don't think personal change represents any elevation from poverty? I think we certainly agree it can play a major role into poverty descent.

It's dangerous to cast blanket statements like that.

Some people end up in poverty by bad choices, sure. I don't think it's safe to assume that most "deserve" to be in poverty because of their choices. I think the more common scenario is mental illness develops > bad events happen due to mental illness and lack of treatment > job loss > more bad events/choices made out of desperation > repeat

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#12

Post by nickthemagicman »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #6
BluishLight wrote: post #3

Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.

You don't think personal change represents any elevation from poverty? I think we certainly agree it can play a major role into poverty descent.

I like to tell this to all the billions of people starving on the street around the world.

Poverty is not structural. It's the individual's responsibility.

Poor people just need some change from within to elevate themselves out the favelas of Rio, the Dharavi in India, the west side of Chicago.

The cancer they get from drinking polluted water, the failure of their body after being exposed to the elements, their family member getting murdered, dismembered, and hung from a bridge by cartels....could have been prevented if they had only just elevated themselves.

Poverty is the individuals fault.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#13

Post by PhasmaFelis »

BluishLight wrote: post #3

Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.

Absolutely. Financial success requires determination, natural ability, and luck. But the popular narrative discards the last two and says that anyone can escape poverty--or be the next Bill Gates--if they just put their mind to it. Ergo, anyone who isn't successful is just lazy and deserves no help.

Still, it is nice to see people escape bad circumstances on their own, as long as we don't turn it into justification for selfishness.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#14

Post by austenallred »

BluishLight wrote: post #3

Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.

What a negative way to view this. It's an incredible story, not a condemning of everyone who doesn't do something amazing.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#15

Post by BluishLight »

andai wrote: post #10
nxsynonym wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a similar note, it's always nice to see the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" stories involving homeless people, but we (meaning the U.S) need to place higher value on assisting those who can't assist themselves. Mental illness is the root of the problem. From homelessness to suicide rates to general well being, we need a better mental health care system in place. I've been reading "Tribe: On Homecoming and Bel…

I wonder how the people who are currently homeless would have ended up, if they were born in tribal times?

I guess that the mentally ill would have suffered an extreme ostracism and violence from the population, but I also think that some of the conditions that lead to homelessness (drugs, alcohol, financial problems) are very recent.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#16

Post by nxsynonym »

andai wrote: post #10
nxsynonym wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a similar note, it's always nice to see the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" stories involving homeless people, but we (meaning the U.S) need to place higher value on assisting those who can't assist themselves. Mental illness is the root of the problem. From homelessness to suicide rates to general well being, we need a better mental health care system in place. I've been reading "Tribe: On Homecoming and Bel…

I wonder how the people who are currently homeless would have ended up, if they were born in tribal times?

It's hard to say - I'd like to imagine the addiction and mental illness would be much less prevalent.

Also the book I mentioned talks about personal value and self worth in a Tribe setting - sharing and providing for others, keeping the tribe healthy as a whole, was the main driving factor versus personal wealth and possessions. The biggest Tribal infractions were failing to fight for the tribe (cowardice, not protecting the tribe), unwillingness to share food/resources, and killing another Tribe member.

I'm sure there would be Tribe members who were less effective/productive, but for the most part it seems like the slack would be picked up by the other tribe members.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#17

Post by tryitnow »

This is a great story. But...someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long.

Honestly, there are probably millions of people who pull themselves together like this - it's just they end up working regular jobs like maintenance work or burger flipping that aren't as inspirational.

The problem with stories like this is they conflate two problems: (1) being down on your luck (but hard-working and reasonably intelligent) (2) being stuck in a poverty loop due to mental illness, criminal record, or countless other complex factors.

Problem (1) is something a lot of HN readers can relate to, especially in their early twenties. Hence, the popularity of this article.

Problem (2) however is the much bigger problem. Unfortunately, what this guy did is only marginally useful in coming up with solutions to that problem.

All that said, I'm sure he's a pretty cool guy.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#18

Post by kilroy123 »

tryitnow wrote: post #17

This is a great story. But...someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long. Honestly, there are probably millions of people who pull themselves together like this - it's just they end up working regular jobs like maintenance work or burger flipping that aren't as inspirational. The problem with stories like this is they conflate two problems: (1) being down o…

I agree completely. My sister is a bad drug addict and an alcoholic. She would be homeless if she didn't live with my dad.

We're also pretty sure now she also has a serious mental disorder as well. I doubt she'll ever hold down a job again in her life. Even if she gets clean.

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#19

Post by Tenhundfeld »

nxsynonym wrote: post #5
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #2

Quick fact check: 20-25% of homeless people in the United States suffer from "a severe mental illness." ( https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/27/mental... ) Props to this guy for turning his life around despite a lack of support from the society he lives in, but there are hundreds of thousands of people here in the United States alone who will never have a similar opportunity.

On a similar note, it's always nice to see the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" stories involving homeless people, but we (meaning the U.S) need to place higher value on assisting those who can't assist themselves. Mental illness is the root of the problem. From homelessness to suicide rates to general well being, we need a better mental health care system in place. I've been reading "Tribe: On Homecoming and Bel…

I always smile when I see that phrase, "pull yourself up by the bootstraps," because the phrase originally meant "do something impossible," back in the 1700s. As in, this thing you're trying to do is as easy/difficult as lifting yourself off the ground by your own bootstraps.

I'm not arguing the "lift yourself up through effort" meaning is wrong. That's been the most common meaning since the 1960s, with some examples dating to the 1930s. But still, I get a chuckle, because the new meaning is also nearly impossible for most people too, without a bit of luck or extraordinary circumstances. :)

Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews

#20

Post by kefka »

nxsynonym wrote: post #11
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think personal change represents any elevation from poverty? I think we certainly agree it can play a major role into poverty descent.

It's dangerous to cast blanket statements like that. Some people end up in poverty by bad choices, sure. I don't think it's safe to assume that most "deserve" to be in poverty because of their choices. I think the more common scenario is mental illness develops > bad events happen due to mental illness and lack of treatment > job loss > more bad events/choices made out of desperation > repeat

And add in the fact, that until recently, insurance was available for only specific destitute or employees whom worked at jobs that provided insurance.

And we have a party that wants to dismantle everything, including Social Security.

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