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Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

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Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#91

Post by k__ »

jhallenworld wrote: post #87

As an ex-IBMer with 10 years of dealing with Sametime, I find this discussion amusing. Just think of Slack but with 300,000+ in your team. Sametime was a big part of IBM culture. IBMs work from home policy was tied up with it. At work means you are online and responsive to Sametime. A typical meeting involves people sitting in a conference room Sametiming comments to each other about the speaker. One nice thing about…

The last company I worked for had an IBM fanboy as CEO who wanted to do all internal communication with IBM tools. Domino, Notes, Sametime.

I think these were the worst tools I ever had to use in my whole career. Even after they rewrote the UI with Eclipse later.

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#92

Post by Spivak »

amelius wrote: post #49
csours wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see a meaningful discussion of the tipping points between various forms of communication. ie: Phone call when you need immediate, high-bandwith dialog; IM when want to chat, but don't need instant responses; email when you want persistent communications, etc Those are very brief, single faceted views, and there are a lot more factors.

And then there is Google Docs for persistent, collaborative communications.

Documents for communication? Seems clunky at best.

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#93

Post by dasil003 »

twobyfour wrote: post #14
jasonkester wrote: post #8

I worked at a Slack shop for several years, and share the author's opinion. I can't think of any five minute period during my entire tenure where the Slack tab didn't have a little red circle telling me that I absolutely needed to check it right this second. There was no way to filter notifications beyond "Everything", so that little bubble would go up every time anybody in the company pressed a key. And heaven forbi…

More granular controls really would fix this problem. For instance, per-channel settings to have the channel highlighted in the sidebar when it has new messages, but without badging the tab/dock. That way you could reserve the badges for the channels you really need to monitor closely, but not have to check every single other channel explicitly to see if there are new messages.

Take a look at the Channel List under Preferences -> Advanced to only show unreads, then combine that with individually muted channels. That's how I have most channels set up so I can passively aware of activity with badges.

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#94

Post by icebraining »

SyneRyder wrote: post #66
VLM wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've left the "social" era and have entered the era of interruptions. All the innovation this decade is in interruptions no longer human-interconnections. My smart watch for example post dates the social era so it has only minimal social features, but its deep in the interruption zone and spams me mercilessly until I block apps and if I block enough apps I may as well have a cheap dumb watch. Another way to look at…

> My smart watch ... spams me mercilessly until I block apps and if I block enough apps I may as well have a cheap dumb watch. Definitely block the spammy apps. It makes a huge different to the smartwatch experience if it's only buzzing for things that really are urgent. Once you tune the notifications, it's actually calming - not only because you're not being interrupted as often, but also because you're not constan…

To me, that doesn't make much sense; the whole point of a smartwatch seems to be making the reading of notifications more efficient and unobtrusive. If you disable all except the rare urgent ones, what's the point of the smartwatch?

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#95

Post by gengkev »

Karunamon wrote: post #88
dood wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that Slack allows multi-line posts and discrete conversations, but both go totally against the grain of the system design. Expecting people to use Slack in a way it wasn't designed for can only result in failure or constant friction.

How are shift+enter newlines "totally against the grain of the system design"? Most every chat system I'm aware of supports this and displays it in a sane way. If people are misusing the system, training/instruction is in order.

It may seem like a little thing, but you have to be very careful while typing not to accidentally press Enter. I've found this to be surprisingly difficult, and it makes typing a lot more stressful.

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#96

Post by mediocrejoker »

TheRealmccoy wrote: post #55

The biggest drawback of a real time communication tool like Slack is the React v/s Respond conundrum. Productive communication and teamwork requires that we respond, rather than react. What happens specifically with tools like Slack which start off as demi-official tool and then transcend to official is that, one gets into the habit of reacting, instead of responding. I have personally seen this "fastest finger first…

I have never heard of react vs respond. I wonder if you could explain a bit of what it means?

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#97

Post by seanhandley »

Here's how I prefer to use Slack:

1) Turn off notifications (except @mentions or DMs). 2) Code uninterrupted. 3) Check in when I'm taking a break. 4) Profit.

Our company culture is such that Slack is mostly for notifications from our toolset, so that probably helps. Also, we're small (< 20).

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#98

Post by ChristianBundy »

mediocrejoker wrote: post #96
TheRealmccoy wrote: post #55

The biggest drawback of a real time communication tool like Slack is the React v/s Respond conundrum. Productive communication and teamwork requires that we respond, rather than react. What happens specifically with tools like Slack which start off as demi-official tool and then transcend to official is that, one gets into the habit of reacting, instead of responding. I have personally seen this "fastest finger first…

I have never heard of react vs respond. I wonder if you could explain a bit of what it means?

Here's a solid article: https://zenhabits.net/respond/

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#99

Post by dmartinez »

From reading the top comments, an interesting conclusion is that messaging apps like Slack do not have drawbacks due to technical problems, but due to cultural problems.

These problems can be mitigated in a work environment where you can enforce cultural mores, but in a social environment (like within a group of friends or some other non-work related community) this becomes more challenging.

There is probably room in the market for a messaging app that prioritizes reaction communication and suggests that more thoughtful communication take place in a more permanent project management tool.

Re: Why we’re betting against real-time team messaging

#100

Post by TheRealmccoy »

mediocrejoker wrote: post #96
TheRealmccoy wrote: post #55

The biggest drawback of a real time communication tool like Slack is the React v/s Respond conundrum. Productive communication and teamwork requires that we respond, rather than react. What happens specifically with tools like Slack which start off as demi-official tool and then transcend to official is that, one gets into the habit of reacting, instead of responding. I have personally seen this "fastest finger first…

I have never heard of react vs respond. I wonder if you could explain a bit of what it means?

Event: Your boss shares an article on @channel at Slack.

Reaction:: Since our boss has posted it and you don't want to be seemed a second rung player and the one who is NOT on her/his toes, you jump on the keyboard and first "Like/Thumbs Up" that post and then comment for the heck of it, something like "Wow", Amazing", "Insightful".

Then you look over your back ie, to see how many others have commented before you, and if you hardly see any, then you pat yourself on the back and consider the day to have been well spent.

Response:: You read the article once and decide whether it concerns you or to be discarded. If it concerns you, you read it once more, may be twice and take relevant notes. Then you decide, whether you should discuss this over an email to your boss, or a personal meeting would be more appropriate.

And thus, you draft an email or ask for 10 mins of private time with your boss.

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