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America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

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Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#131

Post by tomatsu »

ryan606 wrote: post #56

I was able to quit my 1/2 pack a day addiction four years ago after 15+ years, but it was challenging. Smoking was expensive (four years ago: 4 packs a week = $40), but quitting smoking was even more expensive. In addition to the expense of Chantix, I also started surfing Amazon for things to reward myself instead of going outside for a smoke break. So it was probably $100 - $200 a week. Now nicotine-free for 4+ year…

I quit cold turkey and ate 2 large bags of sunflower seeds in the first 3 weeks. Quitting was cheap.

Quitting isn't that hard. It's just super annoying.

Things like exercising regularly and eating properly take more discipline and willpower, for example.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#133

Post by CryptoFascist »

ManFromUranus wrote: post #123
GeekyBear wrote: post #109

So America has massively increased the tax burden on the poorest Americans (ever increasing tobacco taxes) while simultaneously cutting taxes on Capital Gains and Inheritance and now we are considering a large cut to the Corporate rate? Not to mention all the states with a lottery, which can also be thought of as a tax on poor people who are bad at math. This seems like class warfare.

With that spin, sure it would seem that way. You might consider it "Warfare" if the poor were being forced to smoke, or say there weren't pictures of cancer on the cover of the packages of cigarettes, or minors were allowed to smoke or there wasn't a huge vice tax on cigarettes essentially everywhere in the world, and a ban on cigarette advertising in most countries then yeah if you ignore all of that you might consi…

You can apply post-facto justification all you like, but cigarette taxes are still regressive, no matter how you look at it.

Whether it's part of a general attack on the poor is a separate question, but it does fit a pattern of punching downwards.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#134

Post by mr_overalls »

throwanem wrote: post #100
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

> A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. Worth knowing that "colored" is a loaded term in American vernacular, and may provoke strongly negative responses depending on context - I know that's not how you're using it, but many would not, and might take it amiss therefore. "Black" is a denotative equivalent lacking the same connotations, and what…

Or you could make the effort to understand the American terminology for racial categories isn't universal.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#135

Post by quantdev »

smokethrowaway wrote: post #121
quantdev wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Nicotine has mental health benefits (e.g., schizophrenia ) and is a nootropic, stimulant, and feel-good drug. By smoking, the poor are trading years in the future for pleasantness now. Calling them stupid or irrational just makes too many assumptions about their opportunities, situations, and goals.

Wait, what? I've never felt any of those effects from smoking, and I made sure to inhale deeply. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? Are there people who are genetically unable to get the high?

That's very strange that you've never felt stimulation or increased focus from nicotine! It's possible that you have some genetic variation that causes that or it's possible you're just not self aware, but I couldn't say which.

For an incredible overview of the benefits and harms of nicotine, see Gwen: https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#136

Post by zzalpha »

chc wrote: post #114
protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

> A pack of cigarettes is one of the most luxurious pleasures available if all you have is $5. There's nothing luxurious about smelling bad and getting a wicked cough. Unless you're already addicted, nearly anything under $5 is more luxurious than a cigarette. I just ate an orange that cost 50¢ and it was more luxurious than any cigarette I've ever smoked.

As a non-smoker who has indulged in the odd cigar, I disagree.

The buzz, alone, is intense and very pleasurable (though probably less so for regular smokers). There's a reason cigarettes and coffee (or alcohol) go so well together.

Which is why I can never casually indulge... I like it too much.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#137

Post by amerkhalid »

chc wrote: post #114
protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

> A pack of cigarettes is one of the most luxurious pleasures available if all you have is $5. There's nothing luxurious about smelling bad and getting a wicked cough. Unless you're already addicted, nearly anything under $5 is more luxurious than a cigarette. I just ate an orange that cost 50¢ and it was more luxurious than any cigarette I've ever smoked.

As an ex-smoker, I can say that smoking was one of the most pleasurable experiences I enjoyed. It might be hard to explain to non-smokers, but smoking is indeed luxury that could be enjoyed both, alone and socially. I love sugar. But even the fanciest desserts cannot touch joy of first cigarette & coffee in the morning or smoking in freezing weather outside your dorm at 2AM. Everyone else thinks that smokers are suffering outside in below freezing weather but most smokers I know loved it. And I loved it too.

It sounds like I miss smoking. Just to make it clear, it is enjoyable but it is horrible habit not much different from meth & other illegal drugs.

I quit because I was finally getting addicted and it started to control me. I would be thinking about my next cigarette break at work or pausing a movie to take a smoke break while my wife waited for me inside. I thought I would never get addicted but it happens slowly but surely.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#138

Post by throwanem »

mr_overalls wrote: post #134
throwanem wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. Worth knowing that "colored" is a loaded term in American vernacular, and may provoke strongly negative responses depending on context - I know that's not how you're using it, but many would not, and might take it amiss therefore. "Black" is a denotative equivalent lacking the same connotations, and what…

Or you could make the effort to understand the American terminology for racial categories isn't universal.

I do. Many don't.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#139

Post by MBCook »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #108
throwanem wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. Worth knowing that "colored" is a loaded term in American vernacular, and may provoke strongly negative responses depending on context - I know that's not how you're using it, but many would not, and might take it amiss therefore. "Black" is a denotative equivalent lacking the same connotations, and what…

You misread my post. Black and coloured is not the same thing in South Africa. Coloured has a significantly higher rate than other ethnic groups (black and white). The clash with American terminology is unfortunate, but in this case there is no alternative.

They didn't misread it, they were trying to give you a heads-up.

As an American I didn't know "colored" was used in South Africa and other than context I wouldn't have know that it was distinct from black. I'd be curious to know the difference.

In the US "colored" is an old and derogatory term for black. So your sentence reads like "X and Y are this, but Y is that" where one of the Ys is a word that isn't used.

I don't think they were trying to be mean or attack you, just give you a heads up on how many/most of HN may (miss)interpret your comment.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#140

Post by MBCook »

bdavisx wrote: post #118
kardos wrote: post #112

> Cigarette companies are focusing their marketing on lower socioeconomic communities to retain their customer base, researchers say. > Advocacy groups say funding for smoking cessation is dropping It seems like an uphill battle to let the tobacco industry tell everyone to smoke, and then try and undo that with anti-smoking campaigns. Is there a reason we can't rein in or eliminate tobacco advertising?

Seems to me like that's a Freedom of Speech issue.

Yep. Short of making tobacco illegal or declaring it to be in a drug class that can't advertise to the public I'm not such there is anything that can be done except consent decrees.
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