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America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

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Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#111

Post by qbrass »

Pxtl wrote: post #82
coldtea wrote: post #48

The decline of the middle class and the huge explosion of the riches of the rich class will ensure that rich and poor in 50 and 100 years look and live like different species... Slum dwellers and "city trash" on one hand, and 150 year old clean shaven organic vegan genetically modified uberlords on the other. Warlocks vs Elois all over again...

Except that wealth is consolidating into the cities where you can't hide from poverty within gated communities.

Sure you can. They're doing such a good job that you didn't notice them.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#112

Post by kardos »

> Cigarette companies are focusing their marketing on lower socioeconomic communities to retain their customer base, researchers say.

> Advocacy groups say funding for smoking cessation is dropping

It seems like an uphill battle to let the tobacco industry tell everyone to smoke, and then try and undo that with anti-smoking campaigns. Is there a reason we can't rein in or eliminate tobacco advertising?

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#114

Post by chc »

protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

> A pack of cigarettes is one of the most luxurious pleasures available if all you have is $5.

There's nothing luxurious about smelling bad and getting a wicked cough. Unless you're already addicted, nearly anything under $5 is more luxurious than a cigarette. I just ate an orange that cost 50¢ and it was more luxurious than any cigarette I've ever smoked.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#115

Post by drpgq »

dpark wrote: post #94
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing ci…

They still have cigarette vending machines. In Canada I don't think I've seen one since the early eighties.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#116

Post by toomuchtodo »

quantdev wrote: post #89
Pxtl wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention self-medicating. Cigarettes are expensive but they're cheaper than dealing with mental health issues for the uninsured.

Exactly. Nicotine has mental health benefits (e.g., schizophrenia ) and is a nootropic, stimulant, and feel-good drug. By smoking, the poor are trading years in the future for pleasantness now. Calling them stupid or irrational just makes too many assumptions about their opportunities, situations, and goals.

Perhaps we could sell nicotine patches and gum without a prescription? Also, there are substitutes:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/harm-reduc...

"Why have Swedes stopped smoking? Because Sweden has adopted a harm-reduction strategy: it has largely replaced deadly cigarettes with a product that supplies users with both nicotine and tobacco yet doesn’t increase the odds of dying the way smoking does. That product is called "snus" (rhymes with goose).

A modern iteration of snuff, snus are little pouches of moist tobacco placed under the upper lip. Scandinavians have been ingesting nicotine via smokeless tobacco since the early 18th century, a habit that changed only during the Second World War, when cigarettes became popular. Smoking peaked in 1980 in Sweden at 34 per cent of the population. Since then, the growing awareness of the dangers of smoking has brought about a steady, year-over-year reduction in the smoking rate, just as it has in much of the western world."

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#117

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

anovikov wrote: post #71
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if you click that up to $10mil? $1mil isn't what it used to be with housing rising as it has over the past couple decades. (It doesn't actually reference the study, so I can't look at their data.) I expect that "millionaire" now reflects the top tiers of middle class people without an accompanying increase in purchasing power -- they just inflated across a boundary and now suddenly there's a bunch of "mi…

In any income bracket short of outright billionaires (at least up to top 0.01% of population), majority of income is salaries. Not return on capital in any form. So, it can't possibly be inherited (of course your daddy paying for good college and providing you with good upbringing and mindset still counts, but you don't need to be very rich for that).

We're discussing asset brackets, so your point is less relevant.

My point was that a middle class family (say, 120-150k/yr) is going to have around a million dollars in assets by retirement age. But that's not what most people think of when they hear "millionaire", because our cultural expectations are a generation or two old -- they don't reflect the effects of the last couple decades on housing value or inflation.

So instead of looking at families with assets of $1mil, it probably makes more sense to look at families with assets of $10mil if you want to discuss the mobility into "wealthy" instead of "upper middle class".

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#118

Post by bdavisx »

kardos wrote: post #112

> Cigarette companies are focusing their marketing on lower socioeconomic communities to retain their customer base, researchers say. > Advocacy groups say funding for smoking cessation is dropping It seems like an uphill battle to let the tobacco industry tell everyone to smoke, and then try and undo that with anti-smoking campaigns. Is there a reason we can't rein in or eliminate tobacco advertising?

Seems to me like that's a Freedom of Speech issue.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#119

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

chillingeffect wrote: post #72
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if you click that up to $10mil? $1mil isn't what it used to be with housing rising as it has over the past couple decades. (It doesn't actually reference the study, so I can't look at their data.) I expect that "millionaire" now reflects the top tiers of middle class people without an accompanying increase in purchasing power -- they just inflated across a boundary and now suddenly there's a bunch of "mi…

Definitely. A mostly paid-off house and two retirement plans = millionaire family at say 55 years old. In a country of 300 million people, 8 million households are are millionaire households.

Since you mixed units: there are about 115 million households, so 7% of US households are millionaires, and (to speak to my point) being a millionaire doesn't make you part of the "1%".

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#120

Post by mythrwy »

Short term gratification vs. long term thinking may be a common factor in both smoking and poverty.

Perhaps in the past more rich smoked because it wasn't so manifest how bad smoking was for a person.

Also culture. In more well off circles being a smoker may raise an eyebrow or two now as opposed to the past.

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