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America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

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Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#71

Post by anovikov »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #52
KekDemaga wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study claims 67%[0] of millionaires in the US are self made, with only 8% having inherited all or most of that wealth. [0] http://www.fa-mag.com/news/most-millionaires-self-made--stud...

What happens if you click that up to $10mil? $1mil isn't what it used to be with housing rising as it has over the past couple decades. (It doesn't actually reference the study, so I can't look at their data.) I expect that "millionaire" now reflects the top tiers of middle class people without an accompanying increase in purchasing power -- they just inflated across a boundary and now suddenly there's a bunch of "mi…

In any income bracket short of outright billionaires (at least up to top 0.01% of population), majority of income is salaries. Not return on capital in any form. So, it can't possibly be inherited (of course your daddy paying for good college and providing you with good upbringing and mindset still counts, but you don't need to be very rich for that).

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#72

Post by chillingeffect »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #52
KekDemaga wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study claims 67%[0] of millionaires in the US are self made, with only 8% having inherited all or most of that wealth. [0] http://www.fa-mag.com/news/most-millionaires-self-made--stud...

What happens if you click that up to $10mil? $1mil isn't what it used to be with housing rising as it has over the past couple decades. (It doesn't actually reference the study, so I can't look at their data.) I expect that "millionaire" now reflects the top tiers of middle class people without an accompanying increase in purchasing power -- they just inflated across a boundary and now suddenly there's a bunch of "mi…

Definitely. A mostly paid-off house and two retirement plans = millionaire family at say 55 years old.

In a country of 300 million people, 8 million households are are millionaire households.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#73

Post by davidf18 »

ythn wrote: post #64
davidf18 wrote: post #53

As of roughly 5 or more years ago, half of tobacco consumed in the US is by people who are mentally ill and/or substance abusers. For example, people with Schizophrenia are heavy smokers and 90% smoke. Those with clinical depression 60%. They are self-medicating for their underlying illness. We need to ensure that they are getting proper treatment. Income Disparities in Absolute Cardiovascular Risk and Cardiovascular…

They are self medicating because there is no proper treatment. We can roll the dice with treating mental illness, but it's not very consistent or reliable and often produces undesirable side effects. At least, that's what I've seen when family members have gone to psychiatrists to treat various things.

Well, there are many levels and types of mental illness and in some cases, people aren't even aware that they have it. What I know is that there is more that we can be doing today to help those who have mental illness, both in terms of diagnosing those who don't know they have it and treatment (both therapy and pharmacologic) for those that are diagnosed.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#74

Post by torrent-of-ions »

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country.

To contrast, I was recently in South Africa at a wedding full of people of all ages (all white, though). We noted that out of 100+ guests only 2 were smokers. A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. It's interesting because it shows more of a race divide rather than class divide.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#75

Post by mordechai9000 »

jacquesm wrote: post #26

That's not just limited to America. I travel a lot, a few years ago, say 15 or so it would be pretty rare to see young people smoke and now somehow it is 'cool' again. I've had the unfortunate experience of delivering a couple of friends to an early grave courtesy of lung cancer, the one thing that seemed to unite them was that they wished they had never started smoking and that once they did they had the strength to…

I just got back to the States from Germany. I was struck by how common smoking seems to be there, but I was glad that it was strictly an outside activity.

I smoked when I was younger, but I started as a teenager. (Intelligence test failed.)

Once you are addicted, it operates directly on the brain's reward mechanism, much the same way I imagine opiates would. It seems as vital and necessary as breathing. (I am generalizing from my experience, not everyone is affected as strongly as I was.) I am so glad I quit, and now it is more or less completely out of my system.

On the nine hour flight into Frankfurt, the airline had the flight attendants try to sell duty free cigarettes to the passengers. They walked up and down the aisles offering cheap cartons. Of course you can't smoke on the plane. As a former smoker, that must be torture to people who respond to nicotine the way I did.

I really hope smoking doesn't become cool again here in the U.S. I have kids, and I suspect they have inherited at least some of the tendency toward risk taking I had in my younger years.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#76

Post by davidf18 »

mabbo wrote: post #70
davidf18 wrote: post #53

As of roughly 5 or more years ago, half of tobacco consumed in the US is by people who are mentally ill and/or substance abusers. For example, people with Schizophrenia are heavy smokers and 90% smoke. Those with clinical depression 60%. They are self-medicating for their underlying illness. We need to ensure that they are getting proper treatment. Income Disparities in Absolute Cardiovascular Risk and Cardiovascular…

> Raising the cost of tobacco has over half the effect of getting people to quit or never start. Also very important is banning smoking in public places and hard-hitting, scary, advertisements spending about $1 to $2 per capita. Clinical interventions such as doctors speaking with patients about quitting, providing nicotine replacement therapy, and telephone counseling support are also important. But most of the gain…

This article co-authored by NYC's then Health Commissioner and Mayor Bloomberg (which I believe is a free download) provides the evidence of the various interventions along with footnotes.

http://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(07)60782-X/abstr...

> I've heard time and time again that scary ads don't seem to do a damn thing

Whenever the TV ads are run, a number of people call to quit. Dr. Frieden has given sworn testimony how cost effective the TV ads are.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#77

Post by protonfish »

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities.

Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are by definition fewer and smaller than the wealthy. Cigarettes should appear undesirable by those than can easily afford superior enjoyable experiences. A pack of cigarettes is one of the most luxurious pleasures available if all you have is $5.

The poor aren't stupid. They are just making the best of poor hand they were dealt.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#78

Post by passivepinetree »

ackfoo wrote: post #11

In the documentary, "A Billion Lives", the former spokesman for Winston says he was told by tobacco executives (who did not smoke) that smoking is for "the poor, the black, the young, and the stupid".

Can you speak to the quality of the documentary at all? That sounds fascinating/worth watching.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#79

Post by anovikov »

programmarchy wrote: post #42
anovikov wrote: post #5

Isn't this in general normal for the poor? Poor are poor because they prefer instant gratification and don't think about what it means long term.

I'd say it's the general normal for people with low IQs, many of whom happen to be poor. However, when a poor person wins the genetic lottery and is born with a high IQ, that's a predictor of moving up a socioeconomic quartile, as well as increased lifespan and lower chance of smoking. Conversely, a child of a rich person that has inherited wealth but regressed to the mean tends to become poorer. It seems that genera…

Sadly, it is an oversimplification. Maybe low IQ means a high chance to get poor, but high IQ doesn't mean a high chance to get rich. There is no IQ band in which you are most likely to earn in a $1M+ a year band, and i know a ton of quite average intelligence guys and girls who make it. If you are smart enough to finish a somewhat better than average college, becoming even smarter doesn't help you much in making more.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#80

Post by Pxtl »

protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

Not to mention self-medicating. Cigarettes are expensive but they're cheaper than dealing with mental health issues for the uninsured.
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