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Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

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Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#231

Post by agentultra »

devopsforlyfe wrote: post #151
linkregister wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the market would care about professionally-certified coders. Accountants need to adhere to local and federal laws for GAAP accounting. Lawyers need to be familiar with local laws where they practice, and courts are gatekeepers to the practice of law. Doctors' specialization is protected by law for safety and liability purposes. Paralegals and specialized software is a market response to the bottlen…

> Doctors' specialization is protected by law for safety and liability purposes. Yet programmers writing embedded software for medical devices are not regulated for safety and reliability purposes, as far as I know. Why is that?

The onus is up to the professional using the software to vet it before employing it in their practice, afaik.

There are some guidelines for writing software in regulated industries, eg: FDA Part 11 and Annex 11 in the EU for food and drug manufacturing.

However it's more of a speed limit situation. If you're willing to risk your client getting audited while you're speeding you could get yourself and your client in trouble with the industry watch dog.

That being said I think our industry does need professional recognition and liability. That's not a bad thing... it just means you can't be reckless and you have to have someone with a PE on your team. I know SV likes to move fast without their permission but that's insane when it comes to protecting the public interest. Just look at the vulnerabilities and shady practices in automobile automation, testing, verification, etc, etc.

We could do a lot better and build more reliable things if there were some guiding hands leading the way.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#232

Post by serhei »

rb808 wrote: post #101

I dont understand the hate on Canadian salaries. Its a safer, more liberal country that looks after its poorest. If you want cut throat lifestyle that pays the most - with the guy who cooked you dinner keeping one eye out for an ICE van, your ex-slaves in prison and some homeless guy going through your dumpster - you'll love the US. If you want to live a fairer society (Canada, France, Germany, Australia etc) don't c…

Canada is currently in an awkward middle ground between capitalist free-for-all and European-style welfare state. Thus, people who care more about money, and people who care more about good social support (which includes things like healthcare, public transit, clean streets, and so forth that benefit people regardless of level of income) can both find something to complain about.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#233

Post by int_19h »

jimmyk wrote: post #99
throwaway29292 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder if this comment will age well, after around 50-100 years.

It will age very well. Successful countries that behave otherwise don't stay successful for that long. If a country doesn't put its interests first, who will?

Broadly controlling human migration at the border is a relatively recent thing (as in, just over a century). Taking US as an example where this sort of thing is a controversial political topic today - in most of the 19th century, if you had access to any means of transportation necessary to get there (including walking across the border from, say, Mexico or Canada), that was all you needed to become a legal resident. Yet the country did just fine.

So it's not at all a given that the current system with tightly regulated borders, visas, conditions of residence etc will still be in place in 100 years.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#234

Post by shados »

binarymax wrote: post #9

"Starting Monday, Canada's government says it will streamline the visa process so that international tech workers can get a work permit in just two weeks — compared to a complicated process in the U.S. that can take months." I'm increasingly troubled by the notion that the only way one can move from one place to another, is by some contrived rule of value-add that person may offer. Aside from this new rule, Canada ot…

A country has a responsibility to the people already there (especially citizens) first. As long as you have people starving, who need help and money, etc, accepting NEW people who also need help is kind of a kick in the nuts.

If you take in more people, it's because it is in the best interest of the people currently there.

That might mean as a way to grow the economy, as a tax source, maybe even just as a general way to increase happiness because existing citizens like it. Maybe it's to ensure the country's reputation among other countries.

But you don't let people in just for shits and giggles unless everyone already there are fed and happy. And that never happens, so...

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#235

Post by int_19h »

geodel wrote: post #156
ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #14

Not sure how exactly they are planning on "luring American tech workers" when they are paying much less on average, taxes are higher and real estate prices in large cities where these jobs are typically at are pretty insane compared to most of the US.

They can get lot of tech workers who are third world natives. The workers will be still lot better off in Canada as compared to going back to India/China or some such in case of immigration troubles.

Exactly. In effect, they'll be luring people who would become American workers eventually, but can't because of H1B quotas, green card queue etc.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#236

Post by eigenvector »

sage76 wrote: post #71

Poignant for me, I haven't been able to decide on where to move. US is still the big whale as far as tech opportunities go, but for Indians going there now, permanent residency is not possible within their lifetimes, with an 80+ year waiting time on the green card processing. Canada is far easier to permanently settle in, but the opportunities are far fewer, and salaries are lower too. I don't know what the answer is…

The path I've seen many immigrants take (particularly young people who don't mind re-settling twice) is move to Canada, live here for 3 years, get citizenship then move to the US on a TN visa. I would say 50% of the international students I knew in engineering school did this. As you probably know Canada is by far the easiest G7 country to be naturalized as a citizen.

Others come to Canada with the intention of doing this and end up staying cause hey, life is pretty good in Canada and after 3 years you may have family ties here.

The mistake I've seen immigrants make is move to Canada, then move to the US on an H1B, L1 or other visa before attaining Canadian citizenship, lose their Canadian PR due to leaving the country permanently, then lose their US job & visa and end up having to return to their original country.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#237

Post by ranit »

shados wrote: post #87
schwap wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it... paying more so people don't have to choose between their country and financial security? I don't think many software developers in Canada are facing that choice. Is there the opportunity to be 'more' secure in the States? Sure. But being a developer in Canada is hardly a bleak proposition.

After living expenses, health insurance, taxes, etc, just moving south my net income tripled. 5 years later, I'm pushing something like 8x what disposable income would have been by now if I compare with my old colleagues. And that's even after I take out the extra expenses of my mortgage being 11x what my rent used to be (by choice, it was "only" 4x higher originally, since I lived in a rent controlled area for almos…

Sorry to ask you. Does the calculation include kids attending similar quality schools in both places?

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#238

Post by shados »

uw_rob wrote: post #103
Karunamon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot more negatives with allowing unchecked open borders than putting standards in place. Most of the negatives boil down to people not being able to live in whatever arbitrary place they want. I don't think personal preference should carry a whole lot of weight in the context of setting policy on who gets to cross your borders. Certainly not near as much weight as the load on local welfare systems, personal h…

> Certainly not near as much weight as the load on local welfare systems, personal history, culture fit, and so forth. Why do you think this? I personally believe the opposite and think world wide semi-open borders would be for the best. (By semi-open I mean that you still need to pass background checks etc). You could also disqualify people from accepting welfare if they have recently moved into the county.

What you end up then is "pushy" cultures become the norm, and "more open" (from a lack of better term, I know that's not really accurate) get phased out.

Essentially, everything will be China given long enough (I'm obviously exaggerating). There might be a few people of middle eastern descent too. Maybe.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#239

Post by potatolicious »

shados wrote: post #206
potatolicious wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general, for the same job." I'm a Canadian that moved to the US for work - this multiple sounds entirely plausible, in fact it sounds like a conservative estimate. In major tech hubs the multiple is closer to 3-4x. > "Much more realistic is a 30% bump" This is not at all realistic - I know many Canadians working in the US as developers…

Yup, exactly. I mean, I can see it happening frequently the way the person who replied to me said it. If you're in a hot area in Canada that pays decently (I think Toronto is probably not bad, I never worked there), you probably can hit 100k? Then if you move in a tech hub and you're not all that, 135-140k is possible. Then your multiplier isn't that high. But if you were making 70-80k in Canada then hit the US and d…

Especially because there is an entire category of dev jobs that simply don't exist in Canada: the $300-500k senior dev roles at institutional BigCos like Google, FB, MS, Apple, etc.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#240

Post by woud420 »

potatolicious wrote: post #205
ska wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Path dependence and all that, so I'm sure this is how things worked out for you. People should be aware though, your example isn't even close to usual. Work the numbers for a simple case - for round numbers take 100k/yr and 1000/month disposable. To do 8x that you are adding basically another 100k, post tax - so add another 35 k. Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general,…

> "Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general, for the same job." I'm a Canadian that moved to the US for work - this multiple sounds entirely plausible, in fact it sounds like a conservative estimate. In major tech hubs the multiple is closer to 3-4x. > "Much more realistic is a 30% bump" This is not at all realistic - I know many Canadians working in the US as developers…

Yup. I'm also canadian that also moved down the US. That describes my experience perfectly. While rent also easily tripled (from Montreal to NYC) I can say I now manage to save what I'd make gross in Canada, with a better quality of life.
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