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Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

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Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#211

Post by zghst »

ryandrake wrote: post #63
Pxtl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because software isn't a zero sum game. Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley. It means you get bigger companies doing bigger things with bigger success which means bigger quantities of cash whirling around up for grabs. Being the only plumber in town means you can charge whatever you want. Being the only developer in town means you'…

> Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley. I think we might be talking about two different Silicon Valleys. The one here in the real world has a glut of developers fighting for scraps. Companies that have the luxury of being extremely picky and only hiring the best. Lots of interviewing and so-called "open positions" but not a lot of h…

If you’re a basic dev (uneconomical to hire and train), the market works against you. If you’re halfway decent and hungry, companies are scrambling to get you on your team. I’ve been recruited just from random conversations at bars or on Muni. The “real world” is not a winner take all place, there is enough room for everyone and everyone can up their game/differentiate. Nothing is stopping people from going up or down the ladder but themselves.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#212

Post by jonny_eh »

avaer wrote: post #60

The reason engineer salaries in Canada are low, especially for startups, isn't that companies are cheap. It's that there is no funding or support network for growing companies -- nothing compared to the valley. In my experience seed funding in Canada doesn't mean "this idea looks like it's on a promising growth trajectory, here's 100K for a bit of equity to see what we can make of it". Instead it means "show us $500K…

I don't disagree with your points, but I'd like to point out Shopify as an exception. Started in Ottawa, grew, got VC funding, grew some more, IPO'd on NYSE, and is still headquartered in Ottawa.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#213

Post by indemnity »

defined wrote: post #178
JPKab wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beardy dude that started Vice (can't remember his name) has talked about disliking this aspect of Canadian culture. He stated that they have a "cut the tall trees" mentality, and doesn't believe he could have been successful had he stayed in Canada.

I wonder if this is a Commonwealth thing? The "tall poppy" syndrome is well-known in NZ and AUS, too.

As a recent immigrant to NZ this annoys the hell out of me. Excellence should be rewarded and strived for, but people prefer comfortable mediocrity, because then they don’t feel like they’re underachieving.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#214

Post by jonny_eh »

refurb wrote: post #197
kspaans wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you have to put kids through school or have a big medial emergency that isn't covered by your insurance.

There are very good public colleges in the US. They don't need to go to Harvard. Plus, if your kid in Canada wants to do medical school or dental school, you'll still be shelling out tens of thousands of dollars per year. As for medical care, most tech jobs have very good benefits. If you have a major medical problem, you might be out $5K before you hit your out of pocket max. The higher wages and lower taxes in the…

Exactly, living in California or Ontario, if you're kid wants to go to Stanford or Harvard, it'll cost.

And you can't count on your kid getting into Waterloo, the only university anyone in SV/SF have heard of, it's very competitive.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#215

Post by justinhj »

ryanobjc wrote: post #83
schwap wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it... paying more so people don't have to choose between their country and financial security? I don't think many software developers in Canada are facing that choice. Is there the opportunity to be 'more' secure in the States? Sure. But being a developer in Canada is hardly a bleak proposition.

If you are in Vancouver, isn't it though? Cost of home ownership at SF levels. Check. Salary to match? Nope. I used to love Vancouver, I went to school there. I wanted to stay. But I doubt I'd move back except to retire.

I've lived and worked in London, NY, SF but I settled in Vancouver. I don't own a home but I pay a modest rent for a house in a good part of the suburbs and I commute on world class public transportation. My salary would sound great compared to US salaries just a few years ago but the CAD has fallen since. Nevertheless it still buys a good quality of life in Vancouver. I'm proud of the values that people have here in Canada and I'm raising a family somewhere where I feel safe and welcome as an immigrant.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#216

Post by shados »

moolcool wrote: post #199
mahyarm wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Canadians it's the status quo. I was looking for my first job out of college, offers in Canada were 1/2 what they were in Seattle. Cost of living was lower than Vancouver. A TN visa was a low barrier. This story repeats over and over again.

Everyone in this thread is talking about Vancouver, which is a housing nightmare. The scene in other Canadian cities is more practical

Where? Toronto housing isn't cheap by Canadian standards, and salaries, while higher as far as I know, are not super high either.

Montreal is ridiculous since it is essentially NYC's favorite "nearshoring" . It's also big for game dev, which pays like crap even by Montreal standards.

Is it better in Edmonton? No idea. But with Vancouver/Montreal/Toronto out of the picture, that leaves precious few options.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#217

Post by 52-6F-62 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #212
avaer wrote: post #60

The reason engineer salaries in Canada are low, especially for startups, isn't that companies are cheap. It's that there is no funding or support network for growing companies -- nothing compared to the valley. In my experience seed funding in Canada doesn't mean "this idea looks like it's on a promising growth trajectory, here's 100K for a bit of equity to see what we can make of it". Instead it means "show us $500K…

I don't disagree with your points, but I'd like to point out Shopify as an exception. Started in Ottawa, grew, got VC funding, grew some more, IPO'd on NYSE, and is still headquartered in Ottawa.

I call them and 500px the unicorns. They're usually the first two examples thrown out when somebody says something skeptical about the market in [Eastern] Canada / Toronto.

Not that it's what you're doing. You're right, but still wanted it on the record that it's one of the few that's done so well. That said, I'm always happy to be proven wrong here!

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#218

Post by [deleted] »

panic wrote: post #46
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a country not be permitted to prohibit you entry if you don't add value to said country? That's what sovereignty is all about. If you are down on your luck, I will take you into my home. But there is a limit to how many people I can support without them contributing to the household. Scale this up to nation state scale, and you have visa quotas.

In this analogy, your home has millions of rooms that you're renting out. The people arriving in your home are paying just the same as the people who have lived there all their lives. Are these new arrivals adding any less value?

[deleted]

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#219

Post by personjerry »

fnbr wrote: post #89
avaer wrote: post #60

The reason engineer salaries in Canada are low, especially for startups, isn't that companies are cheap. It's that there is no funding or support network for growing companies -- nothing compared to the valley. In my experience seed funding in Canada doesn't mean "this idea looks like it's on a promising growth trajectory, here's 100K for a bit of equity to see what we can make of it". Instead it means "show us $500K…

Yup. Or, it's "here's 100k for 30% of your company." I have a friend who has been trying to raise for his company, and the expectations that investors have in terms of how much equity they want is much worse than in the US.

Edit: Whoops, I read that as 100M :(

That seems within reasonable bounds of a VC offer, am I wrong? If they expect to be valued much higher then they would probably be more well known (approaching unicorn realm) and would get SV interest anyway. And if they want to give less equity maybe they should find a earlier stage/smaller fund?

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#220

Post by jimmyk »

winter_blue wrote: post #186
vetinari wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have an inherent right to enter a random country. People living there have to decide, who they allow to enter and who not. Usually, they set up a set of rules to decide, and it is up to them how these rules reflect their values.

And you absolutely don't have the right to threaten me with violence and harm with the aim of blocking me from inviting my non-citizen friend from staying at my house, in my property -- which is the despicable (and immoral) unquestioned status quo of today. Simply because you belong to a majority (or minority) of the citizens of my country, does not give you the right to dictate who I can hire, who I can invite into…

>And you absolutely don't have the right

That's true according to some moral systems and not true according to others. What's more important is that we have the power to do so, and we think it's in our interest to do so, so we do it. If you want to convince us not to restrict immigration, you'll have to convince us it's not in our interest to do so. Saying we're immoral according to your chosen moral system will persuade some, and it will be easily rebuked some others, but most will say "It doesn't feel wrong" and ignore you and your whole moral system.

>inviting my non-citizen friend from staying at my house, in my property -- which is the despicable (and immoral) unquestioned status quo of today.

That's not really the important status quo of today, though. The problem isn't that people are inviting their non-citizen friends into their homes. It's that some non-citizens are coming here and consuming limited resources that would otherwise be consumed by citizens, especially services funded by taxpayers, and are not providing enough services to the people here to make up for what they're consuming. Many citizens, especially those who are in most direct economic competition with immigrants, are made worse off by the presence of even those who do provide more resources than they consume. The gains they provide are not distributed evenly throughout the population, and neither are the costs they impose.

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