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Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

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Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#201

Post by poikniok »

superplussed wrote: post #116
learc83 wrote: post #80

Look at the company names, I'm not buying this for graduates of a 12 week bootcamp. Either this bootcamp is very selective in who they admit, or they are very selective in which salaries they show. The only way you're passing multiple rounds of interviews at google/facebook/big name sv company after 12 weeks of study is if you already had a significant knowledge base before hand, you're some kind of algorithms savant…

I'm not buying it either. I think some people are trying to inflate the perceived value of the bootcamps.

So how much do you think bootcamp grads who go to Google make total comp?

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#202

Post by poikniok »

learc83 wrote: post #74
BigChiefSmokem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CS degree column seems to confirm that as well. More proof that you don't need to hand over a small fortune to some college to succeed at what we do on a day to day basis. The industry should have a better indicator of who is a "front-line" developer and who is actually what I consider a computer scientist who is at the forefront of research and development in the field (and should be making a lot more salary/inc…

Not a lot of people going to dev bootcamps with CS degrees. Also look at these company names. It would take competent, trained developer 12 weeks just to study for the google interview. There is no way someone goes from, not a programmer , to passing Google interviews in 12 weeks. Either this boot camp is very selective in who they admit, or they are very selective in which salaries they show.

I am confident that one could learn enough algorithms in 12 weeks to pass the Google interview with no prior programming experience. One just needs to focus on competitive programming problems, start from the bottom, and work 50hrs a week.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#203

Post by bcassedy »

CryoLogic wrote: post #68

Hmm, interesting. I know software engineers with 10-20 years of experience in Seattle making roughly the same amounts at the same companies. Is it a selection bias, or are California comp packages really that much higher than Seattle? (for entry level)

Bay area has higher cost of living and Washington has no state income tax. But yes, Bay Area comp packages are higher in raw numbers than those in Seattle.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#204

Post by joshuamorton »

poikniok wrote: post #200
sidlls wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not equivalent, in my experience. People on the same rung of the "tech ladder" as those on the rung of the "traditional ladder" are compensated less in total and also frequently in any given dimension (e.g. salary, stock, whatever).

Okay, but what is the point of saying that base comp tops out at just over 200k? Quite often people with 200k bases make 500k+ total comp, so it is very misleading to focus on the base. After all Sundar Pichai's base is $652,500, but total comp is 200 million ...

Even that's not quite true, Pichai's annual comp is likely much lower than that, since his 200m grant is over some number of years. (Which is to say, talking about compensation is confusing).

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#205

Post by foota »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #75
marcell wrote: post #42

1. These salaries are for Bootcamp graduates, which means they'll be lower than someone with 5 years experience in programming. 2. These salaries are likely for the Bay Area, where a 1br apartment can cost you $3k+, and your tax rate will be 35% (state + federal). It's not comparable to places with lower tax rates and lower cost of living.

Location does make a huge difference. I make $110,000 as a CTO with 20 years experience but if you calculate for cost of living differences that is $164,162 in San Fransisco. Although I'm probable still underpaid if #1 is true... some of these salaries are approaching that.

I've just graduated school with a bachelor's and I've been offered 150k total comp (medium size city, but not SF). If you're as skilled as your years of experience and title suggest I would suggest you could probably be making more if you wanted.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#207

Post by sidlls »

poikniok wrote: post #200
sidlls wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not equivalent, in my experience. People on the same rung of the "tech ladder" as those on the rung of the "traditional ladder" are compensated less in total and also frequently in any given dimension (e.g. salary, stock, whatever).

Okay, but what is the point of saying that base comp tops out at just over 200k? Quite often people with 200k bases make 500k+ total comp, so it is very misleading to focus on the base. After all Sundar Pichai's base is $652,500, but total comp is 200 million ...

"Quite often" is controversial at best.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#208

Post by learc83 »

markfer wrote: post #193
learc83 wrote: post #80

Look at the company names, I'm not buying this for graduates of a 12 week bootcamp. Either this bootcamp is very selective in who they admit, or they are very selective in which salaries they show. The only way you're passing multiple rounds of interviews at google/facebook/big name sv company after 12 weeks of study is if you already had a significant knowledge base before hand, you're some kind of algorithms savant…

Honestly you'd be pretty surprised. I can't speak for other coding bootcamps, but App Academy only admits 2-3% of all applicants. Going through the admissions process requires learning basic coding fundamentals, but nothing prohibitive. You'd be surprised what taking incredibly intelligent applicants, and teaching them a great curriculum (biased here) could achieve.

>You'd be surprised what taking incredibly intelligent applicants, and teaching them a great curriculum (biased here) could achieve.

You don't take someone with no knowledge and teach them enough to pass a Google (or Facebook, or Apple etc...) interview in 12 weeks.

I looked through the curriculum and there is no way, that covering graph theory in a day or 2 is going to teach you what you need to know to pass a Google interview.

From what I can tell after reading up about them it looks like this is what happens:

They make people go through 4 rounds of coding challenges equivalent to something you'd see interviewing as a new grad at a second tier company (not Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, hot valley startup etc...).

Then they take the top 3%. They're aiming for people who are really fantastically good at interviews who already understand the material really well. It doesn't matter that the questions aren't super difficult when they are judging on relative performance.

After that they spend 2 weeks teaching you the basics, 8 weeks teaching you how to use some frameworks, and then 2 weeks teaching you to pass code interviews.

That's not enough time to cover most of what comes up during a Google interview. Professional programmers with years of experience spend months practicing. There are single books on coding interviews that would take longer than 12 weeks to complete.

I'm assuming what comes next is that the graduate spends several additional months prepping for interviews.

So that by the time the person interviews at Google and gets the job they actually have at least a year coding and they're really good at interviewing. This same person could have probably gotten the job without the 12 week course and paying 22% of their first year's salary.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#209

Post by markfer »

learc83 wrote: post #208
markfer wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly you'd be pretty surprised. I can't speak for other coding bootcamps, but App Academy only admits 2-3% of all applicants. Going through the admissions process requires learning basic coding fundamentals, but nothing prohibitive. You'd be surprised what taking incredibly intelligent applicants, and teaching them a great curriculum (biased here) could achieve.

>You'd be surprised what taking incredibly intelligent applicants, and teaching them a great curriculum (biased here) could achieve. You don't take someone with no knowledge and teach them enough to pass a Google (or Facebook, or Apple etc...) interview in 12 weeks. I looked through the curriculum and there is no way, that covering graph theory in a day or 2 is going to teach you what you need to know to pass a Googl…

Without spending too much time answering this - you're half right.

Google is our top hiring partner by a long margin. The application requires a coding test, a technical interview (answering 3 questions with 15 minutes each), and a nontechnical interview. On average this takes 3-5 weeks. We have tens of thousands of applications on a yearly basis, of which we accept 2-3%.

The curriculum spends 9 weeks going through CSS, HTML, JS, and Ruby on Rails, of which an average week consists of 80-100 hours of coursework (no exaggeration here). Then 3 weeks for a final project of their choice, and prepping for job applications.

The vast majority of our graduates will then have a job within 6 months of graduation. Yes, they interview at a lot of places and do better each time. Yes, it is incredibly difficult. Yes, they do get a job at Google when 6 months earlier they didn't know what a function was. Hope this helped.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#210

Post by learc83 »

poikniok wrote: post #202
learc83 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lot of people going to dev bootcamps with CS degrees. Also look at these company names. It would take competent, trained developer 12 weeks just to study for the google interview. There is no way someone goes from, not a programmer , to passing Google interviews in 12 weeks. Either this boot camp is very selective in who they admit, or they are very selective in which salaries they show.

I am confident that one could learn enough algorithms in 12 weeks to pass the Google interview with no prior programming experience. One just needs to focus on competitive programming problems, start from the bottom, and work 50hrs a week.

I will donate $100 to a charity of your choice if you can find me one person who went from zero coding experience to passing a Google interview in 12 weeks.

12 weeks is barley enough time to get the jargon down.

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