Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads • Hacker News Board

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#191

Post by learc83 » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:53 PM UTC

tannhauser23 wrote: post #153

learc83 wrote: post #80

Look at the company names, I'm not buying this for graduates of a 12 week bootcamp. Either this bootcamp is very selective in who they admit, or they are very selective in which salaries they show. The only way you're passing multiple rounds of interviews at google/facebook/big name sv company after 12 weeks of study is if you already had a significant knowledge base before hand, you're some kind of algorithms savant…

Three people from my bootcamp cohort ended up at Google. They had math/science background, but not CS. I know other people from my bootcamp who got to Google after year or two of working at other companies. It happens.

Math degree and incredibly smart + 12 weeks of doing nothing but interview prep--i can maybe buy that. I still think it's much more likely that someone with a math background already had some exposure to programming.

As for someone with a science background and no exposure to CS/programming, I'm calling bullshit.

Either they had some prior experience, or they got incredibly lucky in an interview.

I've taught in a code boot camp, and tutored in college. 12 weeks is enough time to teach a smart person how to plug libraries together to make some stuff.

12 weeks is nowhere near enough time to teach a complete novice enough CS fundamentals to pass a Google interview.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#192

Post by 11thEarlOfMar » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:54 PM UTC

learned wrote: post #22

arkadiyt wrote: post #5

Here's another one that has 3600 salaries: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1a1Df6dg2Pby1UoNl...

This data doesn't seem too reliably sourced. Sorting by ascending years of experience shows negative numbers with the top entry being -9001 and an annual base pay of "a trap a day makes the boner go away"...

The data is not scrubbed at all [0], but once scrubbed looks believable.

Per this self-reported data, base Salary for engineer-class jobs (excluding management)in the San Francisco Bay Area pays:

1 yr. experience $104,000.

5 yr. $132,000

10 yr. $175,000

15+ yr. $171,000

Cash bonuses average about 7% of base salary.

[0]Most salaries are written out fully ($120,000). But enough are in $1,000s ($120) to throw it off if you're doing any averaging.

Location naming is all over the place:

- San Francisco

- SFO

- San Francisco Bay Area

- Bay Area

- San Jose

- San Carlos

- Mountain View

- Sunnyvale

etc.

Job title is all over the place...

So you'll need to do some scrubbing in order to get it to a useful state.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#193

Post by markfer » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:57 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #80

Look at the company names, I'm not buying this for graduates of a 12 week bootcamp. Either this bootcamp is very selective in who they admit, or they are very selective in which salaries they show. The only way you're passing multiple rounds of interviews at google/facebook/big name sv company after 12 weeks of study is if you already had a significant knowledge base before hand, you're some kind of algorithms savant…

Honestly you'd be pretty surprised. I can't speak for other coding bootcamps, but App Academy only admits 2-3% of all applicants. Going through the admissions process requires learning basic coding fundamentals, but nothing prohibitive. You'd be surprised what taking incredibly intelligent applicants, and teaching them a great curriculum (biased here) could achieve.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#194

Post by flytrap » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:57 PM UTC

nether wrote: post #169

tmeyster wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal here is to make it easy for some one to add data. I protected the initial 100+ salaries (Feature in Google Docs). An plan on locking in rows as more people contribute. The other option was to do a google form but would of been an extra step.

Why are they mostly from the same bootcamp? Why does it say "over 100+" when there are 91 responses?

This was informal survey/spreadsheet passed around specifically between App Academy alums. Somebody got their hands on it and published it. It's also pretty old -- we have a newer version that's in use now.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#195

Post by vhgs » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 10:00 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #74

BigChiefSmokem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CS degree column seems to confirm that as well. More proof that you don't need to hand over a small fortune to some college to succeed at what we do on a day to day basis. The industry should have a better indicator of who is a "front-line" developer and who is actually what I consider a computer scientist who is at the forefront of research and development in the field (and should be making a lot more salary/inc…

Not a lot of people going to dev bootcamps with CS degrees. Also look at these company names. It would take competent, trained developer 12 weeks just to study for the google interview. There is no way someone goes from, not a programmer , to passing Google interviews in 12 weeks. Either this boot camp is very selective in who they admit, or they are very selective in which salaries they show.

It's not like they finish the program and walk into a Google interview the next day, you know. App Academy students won't normally even be working on that kind of stuff until after the course proper has ended.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#196

Post by flytrap » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 10:00 PM UTC

mlent wrote: post #146

Who here has actually interviewed Bootcamp graduates? I've had people who didn't know the difference between an object and an array, and people who had to comment their way through implementing a function that replicates "filter" in javascript. I really don't buy it that people straight out of Bootcamp can land a job at any of these companies at such salaries. You need a lot more background knowledge before that. Or…

The assumption of survivor bias is fair enough -- you won't see people here who didn't make it through the program, who didn't find a job at all, or who ended up with a lower-than-average salary they'd rather not talk about.

This is also from arguably the best bootcamp in the business. I can attest to all of my classmates in this program knowing the difference between an object and an array. This isn't representative of the whole indusry.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#197

Post by 20years » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 10:05 PM UTC

From this it appears as though a full stack developer makes about the same or just a little more than a front end or back end developer. Wonder why this is. I would expect a full stack developer to make at least 1.5x of a FE or BE being that they are working in both among other things.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#198

Post by bcassedy » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #74

BigChiefSmokem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CS degree column seems to confirm that as well. More proof that you don't need to hand over a small fortune to some college to succeed at what we do on a day to day basis. The industry should have a better indicator of who is a "front-line" developer and who is actually what I consider a computer scientist who is at the forefront of research and development in the field (and should be making a lot more salary/inc…

Not a lot of people going to dev bootcamps with CS degrees. Also look at these company names. It would take competent, trained developer 12 weeks just to study for the google interview. There is no way someone goes from, not a programmer , to passing Google interviews in 12 weeks. Either this boot camp is very selective in who they admit, or they are very selective in which salaries they show.

a/A, the bootcamp primarily represented on this sheet, is indeed very selective. The spreadsheet is not filtered though not all alums participated. a/A tends to accept people with STEM degrees from good schools or people with career experience that translates fairly well to software development. I went to a/A 3 years ago as a college dropout who played poker professionally for a number of years. I remember being intimidated going in when the intro emails started flying and everyone seemed to be an engineering graduate from an Ivy League school or similar.

As part of the pre-course prep and application process, candidates are going to cover a good bit of ground. They won't have studied algorithms proper, but they'll have mastery of loops, control flow, and many toy problems.

Once the program starts, they'll get exposed to some basic algorithms and design principles by building games like chess or computer controlled hangman guesser. From there they will be introduced to web programming, javascript, and the relevant frameworks the program focuses on.

Then it's pulling it all together to build a site, create a portfolio, and begin studying data structures and algorithms. The last 2-3 weeks of the course are dedicated to data structures, practice whiteboarding, and job applications. Not many people are passing the Google interviews at the end of the 12 weeks, but some do. What usually happens is that people that are set on working at the Googles or Facebooks spend another month or so studying their butts off with things like Cracking the Coding Interview until they're ready.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#199

Post by joshuamorton » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 10:13 PM UTC

themagician wrote: post #109

dsacco wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The $250k engineer is a myth. By the time you are making $250k you aren't writing code anymore. In fact, you may have never written code in your life. You're a director, VP or C-level executive of an engineering department. Large tech companies have ladders for both engineering and management. There's nothing inconceivable about earning well in excess of $250k/year and writing code. I'm not going to lie and say it'…

No, a lot of people don't. A few people do. Small consultancies and independent app developers can bring in $250k+, but not necessarily year over year. And they are usually doing a lot more than just engineering. Maybe I should clarify: The notion of a $250k+ engineering "salary" as normal is a myth. I live in San Francisco an I don't actually know a single person who falls into this bucket. I know a bunch of people…

Are you familiar with the difference between options and RSUs?

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#200

Post by poikniok » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 10:13 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #172

taurath wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary no. Total comp can be 100% or more of salary - they pay people in stock.

It's still not equivalent, in my experience. People on the same rung of the "tech ladder" as those on the rung of the "traditional ladder" are compensated less in total and also frequently in any given dimension (e.g. salary, stock, whatever).

Okay, but what is the point of saying that base comp tops out at just over 200k? Quite often people with 200k bases make 500k+ total comp, so it is very misleading to focus on the base. After all Sundar Pichai's base is $652,500, but total comp is 200 million ...