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How Not to Fix Soccer

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Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#141

Post by mkramlich »

bukkake wrote: post #26

The argument outlined in the article is absurd. Soccer is and has been by far the most popular sport participation wise in the USA for decades. I played and refereed it competitively for close to two decades until I started having problems with my knees. Most Americans are very well versed in soccer and have either played it themselves or have at least watched their kids play it. Most Americans have no problems with…

+1 for the quality of your post

however, wish I could have given you a -4 for your account name :)

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#142

Post by mkramlich »

edanm wrote: post #62
adw wrote: post #21

Broadly speaking, European sports evolved before the spectator-sports industry and, as a result, are primarily for playing; American sports evolved afterwards and have been shaped (to a greater extent) by needing to be good to watch.

Quick check on Wikipedia shows Baseball was gaining popularity around 1860, and Basketball around 1900. Football was introduced around 1860. What am I missing?

You're missing his first two words: broadly speaking.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#143

Post by mkramlich »

lutorm wrote: post #129
starkfist wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fistfights aren't just tolerated in hockey, they are half the reason anyone watches the game...

That's my point. So who are Americans to come and complain about unsportsmanlike behavior in soccer??

We complain because the NHL is the extreme exception among US sports, rather than the rule. A lot of Americans don't like the fighting in the NHL either.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#144

Post by megablast »

lenni wrote: post #101
megablast wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other countries where soccer is also very popular, England, Germany, France, rest of western Europe, Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia.

I am German and have lived in England and in neither country I have seen a lot of enthusiasm for video refs or more severe penalties. Generally, people enjoy the unpredictability of the game.

In german and english leagues the cheating is not so prevalent.

However, what you say might still be true, they really do not care about the cheating that affects the game so much.

I am just trying to help you understand why soccer will not be big in USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#145

Post by corruption »

ErrantX wrote: post #23
Maro wrote: post #16

I am familiar with the FIFA's reasoning, and I just don't think it holds up. The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level. Also, the rules are different anyways. At the FIFA level, games are played on large fields for 2x45 minutes, there are 4 refs, etc. AFAIR HS level games were 2x30 minutes and we were luc…

Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Yes. Alot. Injuries already interrupt the flow of the game - and one thing Football is good at is flowing (one reason I personally enjoy it). A good game is non-stop action (which is my only criticism of US sports - I usually get bored waiting for baseball for example :)) Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole wor…

No it wouldn't. Immediate red cards for "faking", determined by the video ref, would solve all the problems soccer has in an instant.

The number of refereee interventions would go down, not up, and the number of games won by theatrics instead of skill would drastically decrease.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#146

Post by lutorm »

philwelch wrote: post #119
lutorm wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why are American sports so outrageously boring to watch?

American football is an enigma to foreigners in the same way that cricket is an enigma to Americans. It's just horribly complicated and weird and there's no way to get a handle on it if you weren't raised with it IMO. (Historically, gridiron is just another rugby variant, except with added down-and-distance rules, forward passes, and blocking. I like the Canadian rules a little better than the American rules, but the…

I was also thinking about NASCAR. What could compel people to watch a bunch of cars drive around and around in a circle is beyond me. I enjoy motor sports, but unlike WRC, F1, AMA road racing, STCC or any other type of racing, NASCAR is like watching someone hula hoop for an hour.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#147

Post by yardie »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #121
yardie wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheating (especially diving) already detracts from the game. On top of that you have refs given god-like powers to determine a game with their human shortcomings. Already, I can't take the world cup seriously. 2006, it was the Italians diving to get free penalty kicks. Now, I can't even trust the refs to make honest calls. I'll continue to watch the games until something better comes along.

>Now, I can't even trust the refs to make honest calls. Are you talking about a particular incident of dishonesty? Refs tend to be impartial as they benefit from being impartial (wages, honour) whilst would lose by being noticeably partial (lost license to ref, no more wages).

Have you been asleep for the last week?!

The ref for the Slovenia/US game was banned from refing any future Worldcup matches and is being investigated by FIFA.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#148

Post by pbhjpbhj »

yardie wrote: post #147
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now, I can't even trust the refs to make honest calls. Are you talking about a particular incident of dishonesty? Refs tend to be impartial as they benefit from being impartial (wages, honour) whilst would lose by being noticeably partial (lost license to ref, no more wages).

Have you been asleep for the last week?! The ref for the Slovenia/US game was banned from refing any future Worldcup matches and is being investigated by FIFA.

Nope, I just can't afford TV or newspapers and don't find this sort of news reported on places I look on the web, thanks for the info.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#149

Post by philwelch »

bialecki wrote: post #139
philwelch wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty common American cultural expectation, but it would really hurt soccer to have matches go into extra time unnecessarily. The fatigue and injury rate is already too high--look at how many great players are sitting out this World Cup, for instance.

So injuries are the reason they don't play golden goal? If so, that's ridiculous. All sports deal with injuries and sometimes that means star players don't play. What really bothers me is when teams "play for the tie" in certain situations and that's a viable option. Sports are not about playing not to lose, they're about playing to win. That's why the old Brazil teams and the current Argentina team are so fun to wat…

They don't play golden goal because in practice, golden goal leads to more defensive play. The current overtime procedure of extra time + penalties is the best of many mediocre options, and I suspect future innovations will lead to better procedures.

When you look at the reality of match congestion in top level clubs, you have situations where you may have to play 3-4 matches a week at times, when 1-2 matches a week is the most a player can reasonably recover from. As a result of that, clubs already have to prioritize which competitions they care about--a club simultaneously competes for a league, more than one domestic cup, and maybe even an international cup or two, so "less important" competitions like the English League Cup and even, in recent years, the English FA Cup aren't taken seriously by some top clubs. You start adding extra time to a significant proportion of a club's league matches and you exacerbate that problem and lower the quality of play.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#150

Post by yardie »

edanm wrote: post #105
yardie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only ever seen this true in movies. A newbie doesn't know how to count cards, feel out bluffs, or develop a strategy. Given enough money and time they'll feel their way around the unspoken rules. But no one I know rolls up to a table pulls a royal flush and walks out away the winner.

Not true. Lots of people with very little skill have beaten superior players. They can't last against them for long, but they can get lucky. This is a known phenomenon around the poker world, and greatly works to pro's advantage (you would never wager money against a professional in other fields, since there is no way you could win. In poker, though, because bad players win once in a while, they can delude themselves…

People win the lottery everyday, it doesn't change the fact that the odds are stacked incredibly high against you.
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