Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse • Hacker News Board

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#201

Post by stephenr » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 4:22 PM UTC

wayn3 wrote: post #199

stephenr wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring background checks on people driving taxis (yes, ubers are taxis. You're not ride sharing, they weren't just going that way and gave you a ride) is a bullshit law that needs to be broken? Having predictable pricing so you don't end up paying 5x more when there is a major event on (aka price gouging) is a bullshit law that needs to be broken?

if taxi protectionism led to better drivers, id agree. but it does not. taxi drivers are mega sketchy, to the point where id be very worried if my gf or future children had to deal with them. beyond their sketchyness, they act entitled to a point that is just not respectable. apparently, you think their pricing is regulated, which its not. whats regulated is their pay per time. to jack prices up, they take bullshit r…

So yet again, America tries its own specific brand of something, yet again with minimal meaningful regulation, watch it turn to shit when the "market" acts on profit goals alone, and then claim it's a terrible idea that can never work.

This brings us to: health care, banking, mobile phone networks, electoral systems, and now taxis.

Meanwhile the civilised world has regulated taxi systems that work, where you know what you'll pay, regardless of what's going on, and you don't have a company with a penchant for being shit lords knowing every trip you make, and doing shit like charging you more because your phone battery is low.

> surge pricing happens to control the demand.

Are you delusional? Increased wait times would be sufficient for that, and would make sense: yes we can take you but there is a queue. Those who don't want to wait will find alternatives, and the demand reduces.

> when i need a ride and cant get one because the comic con happens and a million teenage weebs need a ride, i like having the option of getting one guaranteed - at a higher rate.

But it isn't just "an option" it's the only option.

Edit: clarified

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#202

Post by op00to » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

bitJericho wrote: post #26

tstactplsignore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter Yikes- I have only a little sympathy for the taxi industry, but it is very scary that you do not believe we should be concerned with whether market forces improve society or not. I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society - the ideology that capitalism is an en…

We'll see what you think of the cab industry when uber raises their prices by 3 times in order to become profitable, after the cabbies all gone.

At that point, I'll enter the market and only charge 2x taxi fares, and undercut Uber. I'll be a millionaire!

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#203

Post by stevekemp » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 4:36 PM UTC

smileysteve wrote: post #197

imron wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit and car rentals are a poor substitute for a taxi service.

Taxi service and rental cars are a poor substitute for public transit. I love that I live in one of the few cities with a train that leaves directly from the airport.

Manchester, UK? Helsinki, Finland? Tokyo, Japan?

(I now wonder how many others I don't know about from personal experience!)

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#204

Post by wayn3 » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

stephenr wrote: post #201

wayn3 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if taxi protectionism led to better drivers, id agree. but it does not. taxi drivers are mega sketchy, to the point where id be very worried if my gf or future children had to deal with them. beyond their sketchyness, they act entitled to a point that is just not respectable. apparently, you think their pricing is regulated, which its not. whats regulated is their pay per time. to jack prices up, they take bullshit r…

So yet again, America tries its own specific brand of something, yet again with minimal meaningful regulation, watch it turn to shit when the "market" acts on profit goals alone, and then claim it's a terrible idea that can never work. This brings us to: health care, banking, mobile phone networks, electoral systems, and now taxis. Meanwhile the civilised world has regulated taxi systems that work, where you know wha…

> Are you delusional?

you are delusional. i want a ride. when i want a ride, i want a ride. what i dont want is to sit in a queue. uber provides that service by pricing people who are less well off out of taking a ride that they can give to me, while making more money off of me that they would make off of a queue.

they prioritize the customer that spends more money with them, over the one who would spend less money with them. our business objectives are aligned.

sure, a queue would be more fair. the idiot over there pressed the button first so he gets served first. because thats fair.

FAIR. FAIRER THAN FAIR.

go read some more marx.

and dont compare taxis to healthcare. different issues.

btw, i was talking about the german taxi market. which is scary as fuck. dont want any of my loved ones ride one of those taxis.

> But it isn't just "an option" it's the only option.

Its not the only option. There are taxis. Cant afford uber, get a fucking taxi. I dont care. Get into a queue. Huddle under the taxi stand while the rain pours down on you waiting for a taxi. Meanwhile I surge price home.

Youre only pissy because peasants get priced out of a service that is scarce. go read some more marx.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#205

Post by TheCoelacanth » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #37

nserrino wrote: post #25

I probably won't ever take a taxi again, but have some sympathy for the cab drivers who put their life savings in medallions. The city effectively promised them the exclusive right to give taxi rides, but didn't do anything about a non-medallion entity doing that same thing. They put hundreds of thousands of dollars into something meaningless.

those medallions should never have been allowed to grow to such excessive values in such a highly regulated industry. if anything it exemplifies exactly why regulation can stifle innovation and competition. As with other cities deep pockets get control over the bulk of them and then lease usage which makes those leasing worse off than having the ability to compete on an even playing field in the first place.

Yes, something like this should never be sold in perpetuity. It they wanted to have a system like this they should have made them leases instead.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#206

Post by xigency » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

incongruity wrote: post #57

xigency wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the VC money and lack of regulations is a huge issue. What people don't realize is that once the taxi companies are dead, the ride sharing apps will be able to raise prices and lower quality. Not to mention the issues already seen with Uber and Lyft, whether at a corporate level or on a driver/passenger level.

And cities are free to regulate the ride sharing operators or reduce taxi medallion and tax costs to let them come back. The government fees/licensing restrictions are the only significant barrier to entry in the industry. Fix those and Uber/Lyft have competition in days.

Funny you should say that. Austin attempted to do this but the Uber and Lyft lobbyists were able to prop up legislation at the state level. Hard to see that happening with a local taxi co.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#207

Post by xigency » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

weberc2 wrote: post #73

xigency wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the VC money and lack of regulations is a huge issue. What people don't realize is that once the taxi companies are dead, the ride sharing apps will be able to raise prices and lower quality. Not to mention the issues already seen with Uber and Lyft, whether at a corporate level or on a driver/passenger level.

> What people don't realize is that once the taxi companies are dead, the ride sharing apps will be able to raise prices and lower quality. The rideshare companies are still in competition with each other. The market will stabilize at a price necessarily lower than taxi price, which was artificially inflated by local governments. This doesn't seem like a valid concern. > whether at a corporate level Sounds like you'r…

At some point the VC money will run out, so yes the subsidies will collapse. And Uber is the McDonald's or Wal-Mart of ride sharing. When you see employees complain about Wal-Mart being fundamentally unethical, you will see not a damn thing change. That's one reason to care. Not necessarily a problem fundamental to ride sharing, but the ride sharing ecosystem may be toxic, and I don't see where repercussions would be.

Having $B of investment for an idea that is only a few degrees from "yo" (exaggeration) creates a hated company like Uber. What has Travis done to deserve money like that that a college student making a location aware app with a backend and insurance/financial pool couldn't do? It looks like a black mark on the tech investment engine to me. Only difference might be he's an ahole and they've been selling some moonshot idea.

I can tell you how bad the excessive funding situation is - my bank, Chase, has sent me offers through my credit card for free rides. A gigantic financial institution is providing millions of people with free rides. That is not an advantage that either a homebrew developer or a traditional taxi company have.

In terms of fear mongering, there have obviously been complaints from drivers and passengers alike. You need to consider those as well as true stories and urban legends of cab experiences. If you haven't heard anything bad ever, then you should be skeptical.

In Chicagoland, the number one complaint I have ever heard about cab rides is the price, and that is not an equal comparison to ride sharing apps (because of incredible subsidies, no licenses, taxes, regulations or fees).

When one company or field of companies eliminates another due to fair competition that can be healthy for the market, but when eliminations happen from unfair competition, that is harmful to the market. I never said taxis were great. I just think their extinction would be bad.

qed.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#208

Post by xigency » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

incongruity wrote: post #124

bitJericho wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do regulate. Uber/Lyft flout the regulations...

Minimally in comparison to taxis - and some regulations are obeyed. A good example is the airport agreements in Chicago.

Well, Chicago is the city that works. But Uber is a bigger gang than the mob. Should that scare us?

Really, things seem less corrupt now than they did with Daley so maybe there aren't big payoffs by taxis, just laziness from them and the police.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#209

Post by wand3r » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

tstactplsignore wrote: post #9

basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

>Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter Yikes- I have only a little sympathy for the taxi industry, but it is very scary that you do not believe we should be concerned with whether market forces improve society or not. I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society - the ideology that capitalism is an en…

I read it as a practicality. It doesn't matter in the sense that; like it or not, it happened. Factually, the change took place and the effects are real. You can make a new change through market or regulations but currently things are now different.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#210

Post by xigency » Sat, Jun 10, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

tjpd wrote: post #165

TulliusCicero wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and I bet after Borders shuts down, you'll see Amazon raise book prices sky-high! People always claim this will happen, and it never seems to. If Uber tripled prices, a competitor would start up to cut into their market share.

There are plenty of examples of individual companies (or groups of companies) getting too much monopolistic (or oligopolistic) power and doing just that or similar. You could look at at the Phoebus Cartel of lightbulb manufactures [1], the Bell System monopoly [2], or in transportation the GM Streetcar conspiracy [3]. Due to Uber's network effects you could say they'd have even greater power to change prices dramatic…

Don't forget cable providers.